Mindy:
Successful entrepreneurs sometimes view money and investing completely differently from those of us in the FIRE community and are occasionally much richer and much higher earners than us. Today’s episode is about the journey of one such entrepreneur, eight-figure business owner Hala Taha, and the fundamental differences in the way we see the world, think about money, investing, and life.
Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to the BiggerPockets Money podcast. My name is Mindy Jensen, and with me as always is my entrepreneurial co-host, Scott Trench.
Scott:
Thanks, Mindy. Great to be here. I’m looking forward to and always enjoy yapping with you on a regular basis. You’ll get that one later. We are so excited to be joined by Hala Taha today. I won’t go much into her background because that’s what we’re going to be talking about shortly, but she is the founder of YAP or Yap Media and left her corporate job five years ago to build an eight-figure business in a very short period of time. We love featuring stories of side hustles here on BiggerPockets Money, and Hala’s is really an exceptional a journey to wealth and entrepreneurship. Hala, welcome to the BiggerPockets Money podcast.
Hala:
Scott, thank you so much for having me.
Scott:
Could you start off by giving us an overview of your money story and telling us a little bit about your biggest influence on your view of money growing up?
Hala:
First off, I’ll start with my biggest influence, who’s my biggest influence in my life in general, which is my father. So my father actually passed away during COVID, which was really devastating for me, but it was easier for me to get over it because he lived such an incredible life and had such an amazing story. So my father was 100% Palestinian. He grew up in poverty, he grew up during war, and he knew that the best way to freedom would be to be the smartest kid in town and to get a scholarship and go to college. And so he ended up doing that. He was one of the first people in his town to read, to go to college, he became a surgeon, went to medical school, became chief of surgery at multiple hospitals in America, became a business owner, owned a medical center, became extremely successful. And I’m the youngest of his four kids. And I felt very privileged growing up, but I saw my dad working really hard and I saw how he came from nothing and I saw his generosity. And so I took a lot of influence from him. So, I learned a lot from him and I’m a very generous person. I’m also a very ambitious person, I think because of my father.
I grew up post 9/11, right? So I’m also a Palestinian-American. And in high school, because I, I was in high school during 9/11, I didn’t get a lot of opportunities. I went from being the lead in all the plays, to being on the sports teams, to being very popular, to then getting kind of like outcast in high school and not even being allowed to be in the talent show. So, I was in a unique position where when I got to college, I went to a very diverse school. I didn’t get into the best college because I didn’t have extracurricular activities, even though I was a smart kid. I just didn’t have a lot to say, and I got into like, uh, NJIT in, in New Jersey, which is a decent college, but the key is that it was super diverse. It was in Newark, which is like one of the most diverse cities. And so when I got there, suddenly I was equal and then I would apply to all these different opportunities and I would get them.
But the problem was I didn’t get a lot of the activities that I so craved in high school that I wasn’t paying attention to class, and I never went to class. And I would just do like my sorority and cheerleading and the radio club and chorus and plays and I was just doing all these activities that I didn’t get to do in the past. And so I was doing terrible in school. I ended up singing. I’ve always been a great singer and I decided that a way for me to push my music would be to intern at a radio station. And so I was singing and songwriting and I had this bright idea. I applied to all these radio stations my junior year of college. I was already like failing out of school basically. So I was like, let me, I got to figure something out. And so I got this internship at Hot 97. I did really good. I ended up falling in love with radio. I was under Angie Martinez, who was the voice of New York. And I ended up dropping out of college. Basically, I was working in the studio in the uh, production department. I got promoted to be Angie Martinez’s assistant intern. I ended up taking a free internship for three years. So I dropped out of school. I ended up going back to school, but during that time, I was literally making no money. The way that I made money, they did not pay me at the station. It was a really risky thing that they did. They, they didn’t pay their interns, which was like a known thing in the radio world. And I would make my money at night selling showcase tickets. uh, hosting underground rapper events and hosting parties and working for the DJs and all day would be hustling tickets and trying to sell these showcase tickets. And I would probably was making like 30 grand a year if, if anything, and like living on my brother’s couch in Brooklyn and my dad was, you know, giving me money and supporting me.
And so then, I ended up quitting that job. So basically, I was essentially the associate producer of that show. And when I asked for a paying job, they fired me, primarily because I shouldn’t be not paid to begin with. So when I rose that flag, like, “Hey, I’m not being paid,” I was fired immediately, which was devastating.
Scott:
I know this is a pivotal moment in your, your story, and reflecting on my mindset around that same age, like this, this is a major developmental component of your journey, I believe. And I would love to, to get another layer of depth into what it was like to, I, I it sounds like you poured your heart and soul into this job for a long time, and it was an utter betrayal and how that impacted you going forward.
Hala:
Oh yeah, it was like so much betrayal. I lived at that station. I was Hala from Hot 97, all my social media handles, all my email channel. I had lost all my friends from college because they were like, you know, mad at me that I dropped out and all my friends became people that were in the industry. I was dating celebrities. I was, I had online radio shows on the side, which was the precursor of podcasts. And suddenly I, I was like a celebrity myself. People knew me as Hala from Hot 97. I get shouted out on the radio. I was hosting all these parties. I was on the flyers of all these different parties and things like that. So I thought that I was going to be the next Angie Martinez. I was being primed to be, you know, the next voice of New York is what I was hoping for. And I not only worked, you know, all day during the station, I worked all night for the Hot 97 brand. So it was like a, an all day, all night job that I got paid, you know, very little for.
And then in terms of like the betrayal, it was really like, the fact that when they fired me, it wasn’t like, first of all, there was nothing to fire me from. I didn’t have a real job, but they had cut my key cards. They told me I wasn’t allowed to talk to anyone anymore. Angie told me like, all the DJs called me up all, “I’m so sorry, like just lay low. We’re not allowed to talk to you anymore.” And these were my mentors, my best friends. I had like, dropped out of school for this opportunity, a family of immigrant doctors. Like how, I betrayed my family to work at Hot 97, you know? So I was really, really devastated. But I’m not one to stay down and I use that kind of devastation as like a chip on my shoulder to be more successful than everybody else that worked at the station now. A lot of those people still have the same job as when I left because people just kind of stay in those jobs forever.
Scott:
What do you think the lesson there is for someone else who’s starting their career? And we’re going to get into this later, but you were gracious enough to have, have me on your show and talk about some of my journey. And I see some parallels there where I, I did the same thing. I poured my heart and soul, absolutely everything of my identity into my journey at BiggerPockets. And I had a great reward from that and did not have, have that same journey. How do we think about that from a lesson somebody else can take away? There’s perhaps a privilege or or other dynamic that goes along with that, uh, in some ways as well that we can address. But what, what is the lesson because a lot of people do that and it seems like there’s a role of chance that comes into play.
Hala:
Well, one thing to be clear is even though it ended up like, you know, unfortunate, I do not regret it at all. I learned so many skills from Hot 97. I learned how to audio edit, I learned how to produce shows, I learned how to, uh, do social media, I learned how to blog, I learned how to interact with celebrities. I learned so much at that job that I do not regret it at all because now I make millions of dollars a year using those same skills that I developed, not getting paid a dollar. So first of all, I don’t regret it at all, but I do regret not realizing the environment that I was in and not like getting so personally tied up into it. I, it should have been a red flag that they wouldn’t give me a minimum wage paying job, you know? It should have been a red flag that I was having to do, you know, babysit the talent’s kids, you know, on off hours and things like that. Like they were abusing me to some degree at the station and I should have been able to kind of see that and walk away from it. But I was, you know, wanted the brand power and everything like that. And, you know, and especially in that kind of, you know, music industry, there’s lots of kind of, you know, dark shadow things that are going on in that industry. So I feel like I should have been able to realize that and kind of remove myself from a poor environment or an unprofessional environment like that. And I think now there’s probably a lot more rules. This is like, you know, 10 years ago. There’s probably a lot more rules in place in terms of like internships and things like that. But you know, you can’t work for free forever. And nowadays, if you’re an intern, you should be compensated a bit and not not zero, right?
Mindy:
After a short break, we’re going to break down what led to Hala leaving her W-2 job for a full-time entrepreneur.
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Scott:
All right, let’s get back to yapping with Hala.
Mindy:
I can totally see 10 years ago being like, yeah, I’m going to do this opportunity and I don’t care that I’m not getting paid because my dad is very generous and I’m not, you know, destitute. But also, like, I’m hearing you say that, you know, oh, I asked for for money and they fired me. And I am outraged on your behalf that they would fire you like that, simply for advocating for yourself. But then I can hear somebody else saying, “Oh, okay, so then I shouldn’t jeopardize my job by asking for a raise. I shouldn’t jeopardize my job for, you know, asking for money.” And yeah, you should, because, you know, you had all these great experiences, but were there other opportunities that would have paid? I mean, it clearly worked out for you, but I’m just, I’m listening to, you know, a lot of women saying, “Oh, I’m not getting paid what I, what I feel I deserve, but I don’t want to rock the boat.” Like, at what point do you rock the boat?
Hala:
I think you rock the boat when it feels right to rock the boat. And if for some reason, you know, something happens, your back is going to be against the wall and hopefully you take the skills that you learned and you create something bigger. And for me, that’s what I did immediately. You know, I got fired on a Thursday, by Sunday, I had a new idea. I was going to create the Sorority of Hip Hop and recruit other girls in the entertainment industry that I felt were not getting their opportunities. I turned my problem into my next business, which was nobody was listening to me. I want to build my own platform, own my own career and path. I learned how to blog at the station, I learned how to do radio and online radio shows. I had connections now. I took all those skills, social media, hacking Twitter, and I started a blog called The Sorority of Hip Hop. Within three months, we were one of the most popular entertainment hip hop sites in the world. I went back to college, graduated. We almost got a reality TV show on MTV where they filmed us the entire summer. We were going to be the next Jersey Shore. We became like kind of famous in the tri-state area. And it was 50, you know, bloggers, I was the president of this thing called The Sorority of Hip Hop.
So quickly turned it around and took control. And the same DJs who wouldn’t pay me minimum wage, who I fed their meters, babysat their kids, you know, who didn’t give me a job at the station, then started apologizing and wanting me to host their parties and and shouting me out on the radio more than I did when I even worked at the station. So sometimes you need to remove yourself from the environment and prove who you are, you know? If if they won’t give you a chance, you build your own chance.
Scott:
It seems like it was instinctive or easy for you to become popular over and over and over and over and over again in your life. You know, from the internship, immediately that, I love the aggressiveness around that. A lot of people just sit there and self-pity for weeks or months after that. But no, you got to just go right after it. You get, you lose your job, you have seven applications out the next week and you take something, take a taking that first shot. I love that reaction. What is it? Like, is it, is that replicable or is that an innate talent though to just be able to generate attention and attract interest of other people to you?
Hala:
I think that is something that I naturally have. I think other people can build the skill. This is a recurring theme in my journey is being able to recruit people who essentially work for free for me. Even at the internship at Hot 97, I was like the queen of the interns at Hot 97. I was the intern that was training all the interns at the station, right? Then started the Sorority of Hip Hop, had 100 female bloggers in and out. Then, you know, my podcast itself, I had 20 volunteers who worked for free for me for two years before we started the actual company. And it was a movement. Like Young and Profiting was first a movement of volunteers in a slack channel who I taught somebody how to video edit, audio edit, build my website, run my social, and then that literally turned into my social media and podcast production agency and many of those people now have equity and are leaders on the team and things like that. So I have this like track record of recruiting people towards a common theme, movement, and getting people to kind of put their efforts towards, you know, something. And similarly, I just started a charity project where I have volunteers, uh, recently for Gaza, right? So, yeah, I think that that’s a common theme. I think it really just stems from, you know, wanting to be a leader from a young age and being passionate and having people kind of feel motivated around my passion and getting people mobilized around a common cause.
Scott:
Well, tell us about your journey to Y A P, Yap from this point, this departure and this this new idea to the the business you have today.
Hala:
Yeah. So basically, like I said, I started this blog. We almost got a show on MTV three years later. Another pivotal point was MTV decided not to air the show. So back then, in my, like, if you were sitting in my shoes, I was thinking, six years essentially of me working for free at the station. Then I started the Sorority of Hip Hop. We were bloggers, we were like hosting parties, but I had like 50 mouths to feed. I had all these bloggers like and like we weren’t making enough money. I didn’t have a good business model, right? So finally with MTV, I was like, I’m going to make it, you know, I’m the next, you know, I’m going to be on Jersey Shore. We’re getting paid like five k an episode, each lead is getting paid. Like finally we made it, you know, That was a lot of money for me back then. And so when we didn’t get the show, I was like really devastated and I felt like a, you know, ashamed to my family. I was like, I’m going to, I just got to shut everything down. I’m just going to go get my MBA, be, you know, go in corporate, be a normal person.
And so I did that. I literally shut everything down. I stopped posting on Instagram and Twitter, and I just got in an MBA program and I just started working at Hewlett-Packard. Now, I became like an entrepreneur within the company. I was the face of the young employees at the company. I started this thing called The Young Employee Network at Hewlett-Packard, and I got promoted five times in five years. And so I did really well in the corporate world and I literally thought I would stay at Hewlett-Packard forever and be the CMO. But then my last year at Hewlett Packard, I was supposed to be the president of the global young employee network and they gave it to somebody who had no experience and I got really pissed off. And I decided I was going to start a podcast. I was like 2018, podcasts are blowing up. I feel like I know how to do it all. I, I was in the radio world. I was in the social world. I’ve like running my company’s LinkedIn and I’m blowing it up. I know how to blow up on LinkedIn. And so I decided that I was going to instead of serving 7,000 employees across Hewlett Packard, I would start my podcast and maybe have 7 million young professionals that I could lead. So I started the Young and Profiting podcast. I started my brand on LinkedIn. I became one of the biggest influencers on LinkedIn very quickly.
I then moved to Disney Streaming Services and left Hewlett-Packard. My podcast started growing really big. I would do all my interviews during lunch at Disney. They knew I had a podcast and were really supportive of it. And so I would go into the phone booth in the morning and like lock it down and work all day. And then at like 12 from 12 to 1, like have my interviews and I was interviewing famous people already like in the phone booth at lunch at Disney. And then COVID hit and my podcast was already like decently big and everybody started working from home. That’s when unfortunately my dad got sick. And when my dad got sick and was in the hospital, I met this lady, uh, Heather Monahan. Are you guys familiar with her?
Scott:
Nope.
Mindy:
Mhm-mhm.
Hala:
So she was somebody who came on my podcast. She’s a really big LinkedIn influencer. She was like a big speaker. She was like somebody who I wanted to be in like 10 years. What would happen when people would come on my show, it’d be like Chris Voss and like all these like famous authors and stuff. They’d be like, “Hala, how’d you grow your LinkedIn? Hala, how’d you grow your podcast?” And at the time I had 20 volunteers who worked for me. By episode eight, I had 20 volunteers in a slack channel that was the start of my company who would just helped me. So these people would ask me at the end of the show, how, like, “Can you help me? Can you do my LinkedIn? Can you do my podcast?” And I’d say like, “I’m so sorry, like, I’ve got a great job. This is just a passion project. You know, we’re not making any money, like, we’re just doing this for, for the good of the people, you know?” And that would always be my like, you know, script. Heather wouldn’t leave me alone though. She asked me that question and she was like, “Hala, you have to do my videos. Hala, you have to help me. Hala, I just met with Gary V’s team. I could give him my money. I could give you my money. Like, you don’t even like your job at Disney, like, let me be your first client.” And so when my dad was sick, she was like a mentor to me and she really pushed me to like start my company. And so she became my first client. I started doing all her videos using my volunteer team. And then I just piecemeal started building my company. I I learned how to do full LinkedIn for myself. I started running that for other people. I learned how to produce podcasts. I started producing other people’s podcasts. I learned how to monetize podcasts. I I then launched my podcast network.
So my company took off right away, and I did it as a side hustle while working at Disney. I had 30 employees around the world, already U.S. full-time employees and still worked at Disney. And I, and I was making over six figures a month, and then I finally quit my job at Disney. Uh, once I did that, I got on the cover of Podcast Magazine. My podcast like grew even bigger, cuz really my LinkedIn grew first, then then my agency, then my podcast blew up. And then two years ago, I started my podcast network. Now we’re the number one self-improvement podcast network. We represent 35 other shows like Jenna Kutcher, Russell Brunson, Amy Porterfield, John Lee Dumas, Ice Coffee Hour and, and lots of other awesome shows.
Scott:
One thing that’s been striking me as the story has been going is just how fundamentally different you and I and you and Mindy are in a general sense. We talked about this a little bit, uh, when I was, when I was a guest on your show as well. But, you know, I think like the thought of somebody doing a reality TV show on my life is just preposterous. Like nobody would watch that, right? Mindy, how would it go for you if if someone were to turn on the reality TV show for you?
Mindy:
The Rich and the Boring with Mindy Jensen.
Scott:
Your story is you, you imagine that there’s just exciting, like like really crazy things going on the entire way through, tons of famous people that you’re meeting, all all these really cool events that you’re you’re you’re doing there. I’m wondering how your money situation evolved over this time period.
Hala:
Oh, this is such a good question.
Scott:
Like, I’m sitting here, like, my day, I’m getting up, I workout, do Zoom meetings, you know, hang out with my family. Something different’s going on there. and I’m accumulating a lot of cash. Are you able to accumulate cash during this period?
Hala:
Yeah. Such a good question. I mean, I can just like go back cause like the amount of money that I make now is like insane compared, like, and it’s all this like compounding effect and like sacrifice, right? So at the station working at Hot 97, didn’t get paid during the daytime, made money at night. Probably made like 1,000 bucks a week if I was lucky, maybe like doing the showcase stuff at night. Maybe even less. Maybe even less. Probably like 500 bucks a week if I’m thinking about it. So I was making nothing at Hot 97 during that time period.
My first job when I graduated college before I took my MBA, I didn’t talk about it, I worked at a water company. I made 27,000 a year living in New York City. That is a terrible salary. Okay? I hated that job. I smoked cigarettes at lunch during that job. I don’t, I’ve never smoked cigarettes in my life and like that’s how much everybody hated their job. We just like smoked cigarettes at lunch. It was terrible. Okay? $27,000 a year. Then I got my MBA. Now, that was a huge jump. My MBA internship was 90k a year. Okay? Then I got promoted and I ended up probably making like 150k a year by the time I was at the end of Hewlett-Packard.
Scott:
Could you give us one one, one thing we I think we missed during this is, is the timeline here. When did you graduate college and begin or when did you go into the intern program, excuse me? And when did you, what year were you starting to make this 150 or so?
Hala:
My college journey is so messed up because I had dropped out of school. So I would say I started Hewlett-Packard in like 2014 and I left in like 2019, okay? So 2014 I started making 90k a year. By the end of that, I was making like 150k a year. I left Disney because they gave me a bump. So I started making like 170k. It wasn’t even that huge of a jump. I just wanted to leave Hewlett-Packard. So I had a good job, like by all standards, at Disney Streaming Services. I was a smart girl, you know, and like able to produce, right? So I was making good money. So like, once I had the podcast, okay, when I quit my job, I started paying myself a salary of just $60,000 a year. So I actually took less money out of the business so that I could hire people and things like that. Then I started getting sponsorships for my podcast and I use my sponsorships to bootstrap my company. I have been doing my podcast, which has been a top podcast for like seven years. I’ve been monetizing it for five years. I’ve only started taking my sponsorship money for the last two years.
Now, my salary is like $400,000 a year. Fast forward to today and my podcast makes a million dollars a year and I take 50% payout. So I’m almost at a million dollars a year cash for myself salary with my sponsorships and my salary. My podcast really is what enabled me to fund this entire business and never take, and, you know, I own still own like 95% of the company.
Scott:
Going back just a step before this, before this explosion of income and the very successful business that you’ve built, were you able to accumulate cash or what build wealth on this journey prior to that? and how did that translate to taking that leap, that the comfort with going from 175 or whatever at Disney to the 60?
Hala:
When I quit my job, I had about $100,000 saved. I had about maybe $50,000 or so in stocks. Once COVID hit and the stocks were like, you know, crashing, I sold my stocks like an idiot. Took that money out, used that for more bootstrapping of my company. And so for a long time for like two years when I first started building my company, I couldn’t save any money because I just kept pumping money back into the business and I decided I’d rather pump money back into my business and invest in myself rather than save because I thought that I’d make more than, you know, 5% putting it in a high yield savings fund if I just bet on my business, which turned out I think to be true. So last year my business made $7.5 million. My podcast made a million dollars. And this year we’re on track for eight figures. It was a long journey though because I slowly started giving myself more salary, but things really didn’t change until I like, was like, okay guys, I’m like going to take a payout now from my podcast and start really paying myself.
Scott:
Well, awesome. Congratulations on those enormous numbers. Love it.
Hala:
Thank you. I’m sure you guys are crushing it on your podcast, you know, podcasts make money.
Scott:
No eight figures here at BP Money. So.
Hala:
Oh, let me help.
Scott:
How could you personally turn your side hustle into a business? Stay tuned to learn more from Hala after a quick break.
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Thanks for sticking with us. You said you had $100,000 saved up before you left your job. Was that for bootstrapping the business or was that just for living expenses?
Hala:
All my living expenses, I covered with the money that I made from the company, and the $100,000 was just like, I can’t have less than this or I’ll feel like insecure. So that 100k was just like my money. And that’s, and I also had 401(k)s, so I’m not including that. So I had 401(k)s from both HP and Disney, which was like another like 100 grand or so. And like those two things were, that was like my nest egg and like I just wouldn’t touch it. And then everything else I just invested back into the business.
Mindy:
Have you gone back to see how much those stocks would be worth now if you didn’t sell them?
Hala:
No.
Mindy:
Don’t.
Scott:
They would be worth so much more. But she made the right call. There’s no way that they were, that they would compete with with what, what she just discussed there.
Hala:
I made the wrong call with crypto though, because my second and third episodes in 2018 were like literally I spent three months just learning, cause crypto was so new back then and then I didn’t invest in anything. Even though I was like studying it for three months, which I am kicking myself for that because a lot of people got really rich from that.
Mindy:
You don’t have to use crypto to grow your wealth. I am a very vocal non-fan of crypto. Uh, the first time I heard about Bitcoin was way back when Greece was having a lot of financial turmoil in their country and it was $6,000. I’m like, who would pay $6,000 for some fake thing? And now it’s a little bit more.
Hala:
Well, there’s a lot, I’m in Austin and I think that’s why in Austin, there’s so many crypto people. I’m like, oh my god, like these people are so filthy rich.
Mindy:
Not just Austin.
Scott:
Now that you are earning an elite income and have a very successful business. I think you said five years ago, was it five years ago that you started the business and are at and really went full time into it?
Hala:
Yeah.
Scott:
What is your investment portfolio look like just in in way it’s shaped? What are you investing in and what are you building towards with your investment portfolio outside of the business?
Hala:
Well, I’m still heavily invested in my business. I invest in stocks and I usually invest in technology stocks. So like the stocks that I usually focus on are like Google, Meta, Nvidia, like AI stocks. And I really just put all my money, Tesla, like in in kind of technology stocks and I don’t look at anything else because they’ve done really well for me. I put all my cash in high yield savings accounts. I’ve still got my 401(k)s. I probably should consolidate them from my corporate jobs. I still have those floating around. And then now I’m getting into real estate. So I am sponsored by Airbnb, and I want to start Airbnb. So I’m starting with buying my own place, condo, and in the same building, I’m buying another condo that I’m going to be using as a studio and more as like an experiential Airbnb that I’ll also probably rent out. So, pretty excited about that. And then I’m just going to keep buying condos and houses, I think, and run Airbnbs so long as I can find somebody else to do all the work for it.
Scott:
Well, I love it. We talked about this briefly on, on your show and I didn’t realize that Airbnb was a component of that strategy. So love it. It’s definitely much better time to get into Airbnb now than it was, you know, two or three years ago when it was boiling hot in the industry. And there’s a lot of, I think there’s opportunity for, especially for those who are willing to make the experiential place like you are and um, you know, it like a business.
Hala:
Yeah, I’m really excited about that. Honestly, I feel like it will like satisfy an itch that I haven’t been able to really do. It feels really creative.
Scott:
Another question for you on this topic first, what is your approach to cash management both personally and in your business? I’ve observed, for example, that entrepreneurs tend to pile up a lot more cash between their personal or business than many other people. But is that true for you specifically?
Hala:
The way that we handle it is that we’ve got our company and then it pays my LLC. And so I like to keep cash in the company at least three to six months runway of everybody’s salaries. And so I don’t take a ton of cash out of the business. The way that I generate my cash, I think is really unique. I just get such so much money from my podcast ads and like that is like the big cash that I kind of take out of the business. So I don’t know if that answers your question or if there’s something more specific you’re wondering about.
Scott:
Sounds like you have three to six months of cash in the business and then you also have personal cash that you consider separately from that, which amounts to, I’m sure a very large overall cash position, very conservative. Do you put debt on your business?
Hala:
No, we don’t take any debt. We’re very much believers in bootstrapping. We might start like applying to have the option to take out debt, like if we needed, you know, in an emergency $50,000 or something so that we can start taking more distributions and feeling comfortable having less money in the company. But I don’t really want to do that. I feel like we don’t need to and so I prefer not to do that.
Scott:
What advice would you give to somebody who’s listening to this, who’s entrepreneurial, who’s got a business that you know, they think could be in the world realm of yours from cash generation in a few years. How should they think about their overall investment portfolio perhaps compared to a typical W-2 worker?
Hala:
My advice is to sell, sell, sell, sell, sell, sell, sell, sell, right? You’ve got to figure out how you can sell at the highest price point in the market, how you can arbitrage talent so that you don’t have a lot of expenses, and that’s how you generate cash. And I’m saying this because I feel like a lot of entrepreneurs, they don’t think enough about their business model. They don’t think enough about the fact that like the lifeblood of any business is actually sales. And almost every problem that a business will have, cash flow, not good enough talent, no market demand, that’s all from not being able to sell. And so I think problem number one that you need to focus on before you even care about the cash that you’re accumulating is, can you make sales? Can you charge high prices? Can you find an audience that is willing to pay or can you find volume? You know, it’s either volume or or high prices and like a really exclusive type of audience. So I feel like that’s what you really need to focus on, and then all the other stuff kind of comes naturally rather than worrying about how much cash you should have without thinking about what are you selling.
Scott:
Awesome. And what advice would you give to someone who an entrepreneur about their personal portfolio in addition to, I think part of the answer, I think you just gave is selling in your business is so much more important than anything you’re doing in your personal portfolio. That’s really where the focus needs to lie, um, I think is what I what I’m reading from that answer. And I think that that’s absolutely right, uh, for for most entrepreneurs. But, I’m, I’m I I am curious if you have any, any thoughts on the personal finance component for those entrepreneurs of the cash that they are distributing from the business.
Hala:
I would say that make sure that you’re not having like a bunch of cash. I know when you’re focused on your business, sometimes you don’t focus as an entrepreneur on your personal side. You’re so worried about the business that you’re not even focused on building your own personal assets and things like that. So I would advise you to pull out money. I wish I pulled out money earlier from my company and I feel like I waited too late and like I didn’t reward myself early enough, right? So pull out your money. I like stocks, you know, put it in stocks that you believe in, like products that you use yourself, right? And that you know for sure, like have product market fit because you love them, right? Put all your cash in a high-yield savings account. Don’t let it just like sit. I can’t tell you how long I had my cash sitting in a Bank of America account that was making no percent on my money for a long time. That 100k never grew because I never took it out of my account that I had since I was, you know, 18 years old, right? So make sure you move your money. It takes an hour to figure out, right? So don’t overthink it. And then, you know, follow BiggerPockets and things like that if you want to learn about real estate. I took a long time to really invest in anything else because like I said, I was investing in myself and, uh, to me, one of my assets is my brand. And so I continually invested back into my brand and into my podcast. The way that podcast work is that you basically get paid proportionally to how many views and downloads you have. So anytime I had like 10 extra K, I would just put that straight into my podcast because I knew I would make like four times ROI on that money as soon as I put it in, and I had proved that out, right? So that’s what I did. I took all my money and I invested it back into my show, back into my brand.
Scott:
Love it. And I think that that’s the answer is just invest it back into your business if you’re truly an entrepreneur on this front for the most part because that’s gonna probably provide much much higher ROI. And again, I just love this this chat because we’re so fundamentally different in the way that we view money and there’s so many paths to winning in the world of personal finance and money. And it’s just, of course, I’m, you know, I’m, I’m I’m CEO of BiggerPockets this whole time and I’m thinking, how do I build my my personal portfolio in addition to the business? But I view them so fundamentally separately and that’s, I think it’s just an interesting perspective from from you as the the founder and owner of your business.
Hala:
Yeah, and I don’t think there’s a right answer. I think it’s like your risk for appetite and, you know, what feels natural for you. For me, just selling feels natural and building something as big as possible feels natural. And you know, the rewards came, so good for us.
Mindy:
So, Hala, I have a question. You are super successful in your business, but it seems like you are a driving factor with your business. Do you have an exit strategy for the business?
Hala:
I’m not thinking that we’re going to exit for a while, and I’ve talked a lot about myself, but I do have two amazing partners. One of them, I’m working on a vesting agreement with, his name is Jason. One is Kate who runs my social media agency. They’re basically homegrown executives that have been with me for many years. Uh, Kate was actually part of that volunteer group from back in the day. I see them kind of scaling and helping me build the company, maybe one day Jason will be CEO and I’ll step down as CEO and start a family and things like that. And I I see that definitely happening in our future. we want to grow the company to $100 million valuation. That’s the goal in the next three years. And so if we end up selling, you know, that’s a path we would take. We’re kind of working with lawyers to make sure that our company is set up for success for a sale down the line. But for me, I would be happy running a $30 million company forever. I love this job. I don’t think I’ll ever quit my podcast. So for me, it’s not so much about selling it down the line, but about growing it as big as possible. And if a sale happens and we feel good about it, we’ll do it.
Scott:
Awesome. Hala, you mentioned you have a podcast, but very few podcasts alone generate eight figures in revenue, right? I mean like you talk about Joe Rogan and those types of things. What is it that your business actually does to generate this this eight figures in revenue?
Hala:
So I’ve two sides of the business. I have a social media and podcast production agency where we run people’s LinkedIn, their podcast, their YouTube. Now, this is like a talent heavy focused part of the business. It is not something that we’re really interested in scaling. We’ve got like 20 very high profile clients. They do like retainers that start from anywhere from 10k to 30k a month, and it’s like a very white glove service for like typically eight-figure entrepreneurs, big influencers, and we run their social accounts. Okay? So that’s one side of the business that we’re not really trying to scale. We’re totally focused on scaling the network.
So the network is basically where we grow and monetize other podcasters. And so I’m actually not the biggest podcaster in my network. I probably still make the most money out of everybody right now, but like there’s close seconds, but like we just signed for example, Ice Coffee Hour, which is a bigger show than mine. And so we signed Ice Coffee Hour, uh, we’ve got Jenna Kutcher, Amy Porterfield, Russell Brunson, we’ve got all these amazing podcasters and my job is to grow and monetize their show. And we take a rev share, it’s 70-30, we take 30% of everyone’s sponsorships and we do all the selling, the ad ops, the flighting, and we don’t only sell podcast ads, we also, uh, sell creative campaigns. So paid interviews, mini series, sponsored webinars, live events, virtual events. We’re now selling for Tony Robbins and Dean Graziozi’s monthly mastermind, getting them sponsorships, right? You can almost think of us as an influencer marketing company that really caters to podcasters.
So we basically flight everybody’s ads, do all the ad ops, do all the sales, uh, that side of it, and then we just take a rev share. The other thing that I do is I try to grow my network. So I’m like, you know, putting everybody in growth programs, uh, trying to grow everybody’s simulcast, doing all these like testing programs, helping people rank on Apple and Spotify so they can get organic traction, PSL, podcast search optimization. And so like my two main jobs is just sell all my shows are sold out for the entire year for example, we do an awesome job selling, and growing our shows. So that’s really our main focus and scaling that out and just recruiting more and more big podcasts.
Scott:
Awesome. Well, that sounds like a very scalable business that would be exit ready at some point in the future. In there, it sounds like it is not about you. You’re just the face of one of those podcasts and what a wonderful business model. You’ve done a great job with this. So congratulations.
Hala:
Thank you.
Mindy:
Hala, this has been so much fun. Where can people find you online?
Hala:
Yeah, thank you so much. I really enjoyed this conversation. Thank you guys for having me. Well, first off, I’ve got the Young and Profiting podcast. We interview the brightest minds in the world. So I’ve interviewed people like Damon John, Alex Hermozi, Matthew McConaughey. It’s an amazing show. Go check it out, Young and Profiting. If you want to find out about the network or the social agency, it’s yapmedia.com, y a p media.com.
Scott:
Thank you so much for having me on your show and then coming back here on the BiggerPockets Money podcast. It has been a real privilege to meet you and chat with you these last couple of hours and uh, look forward to sharing your story.
Hala:
Yeah, likewise. It was such a pleasure. Thank you guys.
Mindy:
Thank you, Hala, and we’ll talk to you soon.
All right, that was Hala Taha. Scott, what’d you think of the show?
Scott:
I loved it. I mean, I think that a lot of people probably are listening to this on BiggerPockets Money and being like, “Well, hey, I’m, I’m working my job or I got my small business and I’m steadily moving marching toward FI and I’m in that grind.” And, you know, folks like Hala come along and just kind of totally wash away and send to the side this notion of the grind. Do not do any of the the serious hardcore saving or investing and then build a a thriving business. And I think that it’s really important to be reminded of these different types of journeys here because there are no hard and fast rules in finance at the end of the day. and entrepreneurship and successful business building can obviate the need for tons of these other components of a financial journey if you’re wired for it and entrepreneurial like that. I also thought it was really funny because I, parts of the, the journey, I respected Hala’s journey so much, and I just find it so funny how, you know, I just cannot relate to anyone ever wanting to do an MTV show about my life. And I think Mindy feels the same way here.
Mindy:
100%.
Scott:
And it’s so different. It’s just like it’s not a worldview that I’m even able to like contemplate. I just like, it’s so ridiculous to envision someone coming into our house and trying to film a day of my life and people thinking this is exciting in some way. So, it’s just, that’s just not the way I do it and not the way that I think a lot of folks do it. But there are so many people out there who that is for and there are so many ways to use a personality, a skill set, a, uh, charisma, like Hala has to create those types of opportunities. So good for her. Really learned a lot here and I think it’s just a really good reminder of the differences that people have and you can have that and 10, 15 years can go by and it can look like you’re not getting ahead financially and then poof, explosion from your business. There’s always opportunities out there.
Mindy:
Uh, hey MTV, if you ever want to produce what would absolutely be the lowest rated show you’ve ever done, hit me up, Mindy at biggerpocketsmoney.com.
Scott:
Mindy becomes millionaire over 25 years of frugal saving and lifestyle design. And an instant success overnight in just 25 short years. Half a percent a month for 25 years, you know.
Mindy:
Scott, one thing Hala said that I absolutely loved was, I turned my problem into my next business. And I think this is where a lot of really successful ideas come from. Are you interested in entrepreneurship? What is a problem that you have and how can you solve it? Because if you’re having that problem, I can almost guarantee lots of other people are having that problem too. So I love that that was her mindset. It wasn’t, oh, poor me, it was, how can I fix this problem?
Scott:
I think there’s also just this, this component, like, I think some people, you know, like everyone’s gonna have rough patches along their journey. Like I, I don’t, I don’t know of anybody who had a 30-year career of just straight up success the entire way through without interruption in there. And it’s how you respond to those setbacks that’s really important. And you can’t respond by being despondent for months and months or weeks and weeks after a setback. It’s got to be, you know, that sucks. I’m going to, you know, take the night, maybe the weekend and and think about it. And I’m back to work on Monday or better yet Sunday, getting after the next opportunity, whether that’s getting my resume ready, getting a business plan ready, or otherwise just jumping on something and moving forward. That’s the characteristic that has defined Hala’s journey that clearly has led to the explosion eventually of her business here.
Mindy:
Yep. Absolutely.
Scott:
One other observation I want to make about Hala’s journey is I thought it was fascinating when I asked her about her investment portfolio. “What do you invest in?” And she didn’t even register the question about her financial portfolio. It was, “in sales, of course, and growing my business.” We we spend all this time on BiggerPockets Money obsessing over the personal portfolio and the accumulation of wealth to build a FI portfolio. And she didn’t even really get the question from it. That’s really fascinating and I don’t think that’s going to be that uncommon among a lot of serious hardcore entrepreneurs out there. And that’s something to consider, you know, how does that impact the way we think about a portfolio that’s smart for an entrepreneur? Is it a very low risk, high cash position because it’s not even really on your brain or maybe it shouldn’t be because you’re building a business. Of course, all the extra cash is going into the business in there. I thought that was a fascinating response from a true entrepreneur into that question around portfolio building.
Mindy:
That was. Yeah, I really liked that answer for her. She’s investing in herself. She’s investing in her business and that’s how you grow. That is the difference between somebody who is making, what is it? Eight, ten figures and somebody who isn’t.
Scott:
And is it a better risk-adjusted investing for Paula and many entrepreneurs and folks like her than what we talk about all day on bigger pockets money. Again, I just found it a fascinating glimpse into a really different mind and entrepreneurial journey.
Mindy:
Absolutely a different mindset, but entrepreneurs need to have a different mindset. Alright, Scott, should we get out of here?
Scott:
Let’s do it.
Mindy:
That wraps up this episode of the BiggerPockets Money podcast. He is Scott Trench. I am Mindy Jensen, saying…
Mindy:
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…Catch you later, alligator
