Mindy: Happy New Year’s Eve. We hope you are taking time today to set up your financial goals for 2025. So that you are one step closer to achieving financial independence. In fact, Scott and I are busy doing just that. So today, we are bringing you one of our favorite episodes for an encore. It’s half the battle to make sure you have a financial plan, but is your partner on the same page? In this episode, we’ll talk about all of the things you should be discussing with your partner when it comes to money, and most importantly, how to make sure it’s fun. Listen on for more.
Welcome to the Bigger Pockets Money Podcast show number 157 where Scott and I talk about how to have a money date with your partner. Scott, one of the things that we hear from couples over and over again when we interview them on the show is that they have a regularly scheduled money date with their partner. And we’ve never really talked about how to have a money date with your partner. I think today would be great to give kind of a step by step or or set some guidelines for our listeners so that they can start off 2021 with a brand new outlook on their financial future.
Scott: Yeah, I love it. And this is something that I think is really important and I think that more of a a general goal setting, um, conversation and then, and then talk about how money specifically I think fits in that and how to have those conversations and be prepared in that. But like this is something that I do. Uh, I know you do, you you you and and and and Carl are on the same page when it comes to your finances. And I, I wouldn’t say that Mindy and I are the end all be all experts on this stuff, but we do nerd out about goal setting and and this kind of stuff. And so I think that this could be a helpful conversation. We’ll give you a a couple of things to download. If you’re interested, those can be found at the show notes at biggerpockets.com/moneyshow157. Those will include a couple of worksheets and those types of things if you’re interested in all free. Um, but should we get into it, Mindy?
Mindy: One of the most frequently recommended ideas that our guest has shared is the money date. Most of the couples we speak to have a regular scheduled time to sit down with their partner and discuss their financial situation. Today, Scott and I are going to tell you how you can set one up with your partner to set you on the road to financial success.
Scott: All right, so let’s just go ahead and jump right into it. So, what if you’re listening to this episode, you are probably this, it’s either you and your spouse together or you on your own, and likely you are the one who’s more of the the goal setter or the person behind the the driving force behind setting this up. If that’s not true and your spouse is on board, you can probably skip some of what we’re about to say. But if it is true and you need some help with that, listen on. So the first thing, if you’re if you’re going to try to set up a money date or general goal setting discussion with your partner in the first place, the first part is actually setting that meeting and doing it in what I call peak state. If you’re dragging your partner along and they’re not, they don’t really want to be there, or you’re doing it yourself on a day where you’re tired and exhausted, you’re going to have a bad time. You’re going to set mediocre goals and you’re not going to realize, you know, get excited and realize your vision. So what is what is peak state mean? Um it doesn’t mean it’s like the best you’ve ever felt in your life. But everyone goes through these like ebbs and flows of um you know, when they were feeling really good and when we’re feeling a little bit down in the in the dumps or whatever. And you want to, if possible, create a situation where you’re setting these goals in a situation where you’re in a great mood. That’s, you know, probably uh maybe after you’ve had your coffee in the morning or after uh light to moderate exercise or uh after a really good day at work or in on a on a weekend. It’s probably not after six beers uh or or after a hard day of work where you’re a little demoralized or after, you know, a a fighting match between your kids. Mindy, what what would you how do you think about your peak state?
Mindy: My peak state is probably right after I’ve gotten up. I’ve had my coffee and I am relaxed and ready to go. Uh my unpeak state is probably right after I get the girls to bed because they don’t like to go to bed. They like to fight about going to bed. Every night, it’s the same argument. Why can’t I do this? Why do I have to go to bed so early? Why can’t I stay up later? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It’s really not the best time for me to be setting my goals or talking about where I want to see myself in in financially in five years. So, that’s not the best time for me. Um, another good place is maybe on the beach, on your honeymoon.
Scott: Yeah, so Virginia and I uh did this uh while we were on our honeymoon on the beach and yeah, it was after a workout and all that stuff. And you do it when you’re feeling really really good and if you’re not, you just postpone it and and and do it another time. But yeah, whatever you need to do to to to buy that peak state from your spouse in particular and bring it yourself, I think is key. So, you know, you may have to work in earn earn that one. So I I don’t know uh how wives uh uh do this for husbands, but for for husbands with wives, I I’ve I have, you know, now four or five weeks of experience and things like massages, uh you know, uh uh honeymoons or trips, uh uh uh doing lots of the dishes for several weeks in a row, making a huge dent in cleaning the house or whatever. Those things all tend to to be ways to put your spouse into a really good mood. big smile and and greeting, you know, extra big one every day when you come home or whatever it is. Whatever it is you need to do, I I think to to to to set that up and get that conversation and build that excitement, I think is key without, you know, trying to force them into it. This is not a drag your spouse into the conversation type event. Otherwise, you’re going to set some mediocre goals that aren’t really going to get bought in and you’re not going to be motivated to achieve them.
Mindy: Yeah, another thing I want you to think of when you are thinking about setting a money date is no accusations. If you are listening to this without your spouse, you are the one who is the the one who wants to make changes to your financial situation. Accusing your spouse, I’m sorry, accusing your partner of being the reason that we have to have this money date in the first place is not the right way to get buy-in from your spouse. Here is what I would like. I would like our financial situation to change. I think it is within our means to do this. I would like to do it with you. I would like to have a conversation together. Let’s start off by looking at our financial page. Let’s have a a financial picture. Let’s look at what our goals are. What are your goals? Where do you see yourself in five years? Let’s talk these things through in a non-confrontational way. That is the best way to get buy-in in this. You’re both in this together. It is not a competition. It is not a uh a battle or it shouldn’t be a battle. It should be a conversation where you’re both on the same page and moving forward every single time you have this conversation.
Scott: Yep, and and I also think, you know, another rule that is closely aligned with that and that can avoid that accusatory state uh in in these meetings or this this uh this date is to come prepared with some homework and be ready to go with like, here’s what I think here here’s a vision that I’m painting for our future together. You know, and and this should be based in grounded in what you know about yourself and what you know about your partner, right? Like you you you’re you’re this is your spouse or your person the person that you’re going to be planning your financial future with. Surely you know some of the things that they like to do or the the world in which they like to live. And surely you as you paint a vision or begin the process of of mapping that out and and how your financial uh how you want to move your financial position forward, that it supports those things that that that that partner wants to do in in some of those ways. So, um we’ll and that that we’ll get into this in much in a great detail here, but I think that that’s a that’s the third piece of this is, you know, if we’re going to rephrase those, if we’re going to restate all these three rules, it’s set the goals in a peak state condition when you’re both feeling up to it, energized, invigorated and ready to and and and bought into the process. Don’t accuse your partner of the one being the one that’s holding you back from the goals, attack it together. And three, drive the meeting yourself and come prepared with your homework and your plans to to to your initial stab at um painting a vision for your future together and how you want to get there.
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Mindy: Okay, so those are the uh rules of the money date. Let’s talk about things that you should do before you come to the money date. You can’t just say, let’s have a money date. Okay, go. You need to come prepared. You need to do your homework. And you should not expect your spouse to be as prepared as you are. That unless you’re both listening to this together and you’re on the same page, that is not going to happen. So, come in with your feelings and your thoughts in a non-accusatory way. So number one, you’re going to want to track all of your spending and your net worth. And this is something that you can do retroactively by looking at past credit card statements and looking at your bank statements, uh and try to remember where your money has gone in the past month. Of course, we just had the holidays, you may have extra spending in December, but you can still see where money’s going. Uh, track your spending again in January. Maybe go back to November or October and see where your spending is there too.
Scott: And if you’re really gung ho, go back six months because that’ll give you a much clearer picture of what your average spending is if you can get that much data. But that that might take you a few hours, but that will give you the most I think complete picture of what you’re really spending on an average basis.
Mindy: Yeah, and and Scott just said the word hour. Uh that this this might sound daunting but you’re changing your entire financial life. It’s worth an investment like this.
Scott: Absolutely. Now, if this is again, this is before the money date. So if some of that spending is, you know, controlled by your spouse, maybe they’re not they’re not combined or whatever. Um my suggestion I think would be to just track everything you can track. Everything that you spend, everything that you have easy access to uh in in your in in the bank accounts that you can see. and if your spouse is very open and amenable, um ask ask that, but ask for that. But if if that seems like it it’s difficult, um at least at first before the talk, um just track what you can track and figure out what your what you’re able to see there.
Mindy: Yes, and once you have tracked it all, go back and review it. When you’re tracking it, you’re doing it without any judgment. You’re just writing down numbers, plugging in numbers. Once you have finished tracking your spending, go back and review where your money’s going, and you will start to see patterns. If you’re like me, if you’re like anybody else, you will start to see patterns. Oh, look at me doing this on a consistent basis, and do I really need that? Is it where is your money going where you really want it to go? I know I harp on this all the time. Regular listeners are going to say, Wow, Mindy, you’ve never told us to track your spending every single episode. There’s a reason I say track it. It is so eye opening when you haven’t tracked it to when you first start tracking it, you’re like, holy cow, I can’t believe I’m spending money at these places, because when you’re spending the money, it’s only a dollar. It’s only $20, it’s only $50. It’s only whatever only means to you, but it adds up and it adds up a lot and it’s quite shocking. It was to me, how much I was spending at different places, and it was so easy to change how much I was spending just by being cognizant of where my money was going.
Scott: Yep, and and another tip on that. um as you’re doing that, you know, I think it’s critical to bucket your spending into no more than, let’s call it five to seven major categories. Um you know, if if you need to, you can go slightly beyond that. But if you’ve got 25 line items in a spreadsheet, that is completely overwhelming and distracting and difficult to bring up with other parties. It’s it’s hard to do that at work with people who do this for a living. I can only imagine how difficult that will be to to to review that many line items with your spouse, especially if they’re just getting started with this and getting introduced to these concepts. So bucket in the five to seven categories. Your utility bill, that’s part of your housing expense. Your gas, that’s part of your auto expense, along with your car payment, along with your insurance, along with your maintenance, those types of things. Bucket them together, keep it simple stupid, um when you when you’re reviewing your spending there. Food, bucket your grocery bill and your eating out budget is food. Break them out within that category if you need to, if you want to go and take a deeper dive into it, if you think that’s an inflection point. But for the purposes of your overall budget and your overall spending, lump them into those big categories and keep it super, super simple um for those types of things. Entertainment, miscellaneous and other, one giant category. Dump it all in there, all the little little things that you’re getting, those types of things. Sody’s raising an eyebrow. You disagree with some of that categorization, Mindy?
Mindy: I do in the beginning when you are looking for places to cut. If you have an enormous gas bill, uh gasoline for your car, one of the if you’ve got that lumped in with your insurance and your car payment, that can just be, well, I guess I just spend a lot on my car. When you break it out, you can see, oh, you know what? I never ever take the I never consolidate my my errands or I’m paying way too much for car insurance because I’ve never had it uh requoted. Or wow, my car payment is a,000 a month and I make $3,000 a month take home. Maybe I should reconsider my choices. So for the purposes of this spending, this first money date, maybe having the the overall picture is good just to see it. But when you’re starting to look at where you can cut, you definitely want to go in and nitpick everything. Um
Scott: Absolutely. And I just want to I completely agree with that. I just think that for the purposes of reviewing your budget, you’re trying to create a pie chart basically. Right, where are my big buckets of spending? And if my car and auto spending is $2,000, then I break into that, then I I I I I I break that one back out and look at that as an individual item and then I do the exact same exercise, five to seven categories and say, okay, great, now I’m spending all this money on gas or my car payment or my insurance. Wow, I can begin eliminating those, but I can at least zoom out from the highest level and say, oh, it’s that car payment seems like a place to look. That’s the 80/20 rule, um where where where I can be impactful, seems to be in that car or the housing or the food or the entertainment, um portions of my budget rather than these other categories. And then, of course, you go in and do that deep dive. That’s the whole point of that to make sure to figure out, you know, which item I want to cut back on this month or for the next six months.
Mindy: Okay, that’s fair. I’ll give you that, Scott. Uh the next thing you want to do before your meeting actually happens is to prepare a vision for your family. That’s you preparing the vision for your family. It’s okay for this vision to morph over time and it will morph over time because once you get into the money date, you’re going to ask your spouse to do the same thing: prepare a vision for the family. During the money date, you’re going to compare those visions, but we’re not to the money date yet. We’re just doing this setup. So you want to make sure that you have, you know, what’s important to you? Do you want to know where you want to live in five years or do you want to know where your kids are going to school? Do you have children? Is it a family situation? It’s it’s an overall your first money date is a very, very broad. In five years, I want to have a child or I want to be done having children. In five years, my oldest daughter will be out of the house almost, which is actually kind of exciting. But also a little sad. I kind of feel like like I’m not old enough to have a a kid that age, but I am, definitely old enough to have a kid that age. Uh, you know, just what do you see? I want to be able to prepare to pay for her college. So in five years, my goal is to have enough money to pay for her college so she doesn’t have to take out student loans.
Scott: Yeah, and and when you when when it comes to this vision stuff, I’m sure you’ve heard it a million times, um from different places. We’re not the people inventing this, of course. But my advice would just be to to keep it simple again. Don’t don’t write pages and pages in this vision, at least not the first time. Um just do something that’s like two or three paragraphs, less than half a page typed in in Microsoft Word or Google Sheets or something like that. And and just say kind of thing think about things like, where do I want to live? What do I want my day-to-day life to be like? What do I want to do what do I want to do in that day today? Do I want to do I want to exercise? Do I want to eat be well I want to be healthy? Do I want to um enjoy times with times time with friends and family? Do I want to be doing impactful work of whatever type it is that that you may want to be doing? What kind of environment do you want to be? We’re in Denver, Colorado at the by the mountains and and and beautiful ski areas and hiking. Do you want to be there? Do you want to be uh by the beach? Do you want to be in the out in the in in the wilderness, in the woods, you know, or buy a lake? Like what what is it about your environment that you want to be in? What do you want your family life to be like? what kind of family do you want? Um and then just go around that. And and so a great way if you’re struggling with this vision concept to just get basically started is to uh download the what’s called the Wheel of Life, right? There’s a very simple circular spread like piece of paper. We’ll we’ll link to it in the show a version of it in the show notes. Um and it’s just it it creates arbitrary life categories like career, money, health, you know, business, uh if you own a business, uh fun, leisure, relationship, mental health and learning, um those types of things. And you basically rank yourself. Like, am I miserable in this category of life or am I ecstatic? miserab being a one, ecstatic being a 10. And after you map it out, if you can follow along with what I’m saying here, you’ll get like either a circle if you’re really well balanced or you’ll get like a very spidly little thing where you’re like eight on one and two on the other. Anyways, this can be a very helpful tool in just kind of getting you an idea about like where you feel you’re strong and where you feel you’re weak in life and where you want to begin focusing on that vision. Like what what do you or don’t you want it to be. So I I recommend downloading that and just filling it out. It’ll take a few minutes. um and you can and and it give you a kind of a picture uh a zoomed out view of of how you self assess your life, uh which I think can help you write that vision.
Mindy: The next thing you want to do is set a time with your spouse that you both agree on to have this conversation. Again, don’t do this right after a very stressful day at work. Pick the time of day or week that is really easy for you to have a nice conversation and sit down and have the conversation. Make sure your spouse is available at that time. Don’t force them into anything. Again, you’re asking them most likely to make some changes to their life that they may not be really excited about making. So a quiet evening where you don’t have any distractions. And one of those distractions might be children. If you have young children and you can’t have a time there isn’t a time available to have it after they go to bed, get a babysitter. Schedule somebody to come over or take the kids someplace else so that you have an uninterrupted conversation time. This conversation is going to take a while. It is not a five-minute conversation, it’s not a 30-minute conversation. And you don’t want to be rushed because you’re talking about your financial future. So sit down with your spouse, have some snacks, have some light drinks and and uh Scott and I were like, hmm, maybe we should say skip the alcohol during the conversation. Alcohol is for after the conversation.
Scott: Yes.
Mindy: Have have a bottle of wine chilling for afterwards, but during the conversation, you want to be clear-headed and open to the discussion.
Scott: Yeah and I want to go one you know, I think it’s going to be different for everybody, but Mindy, you and I we both just talked about this while we were kind of thinking through the show this today, um both of our peak states are kind of in the morning. Not not the early morning necessarily for me, but in in the morning hours, you know, right around right around this time. When we record these podcasts around 9 or 10 in the morning Denver time. And that’s about my peak state. That’s what I feel like the best as I the coffee has kicked in and I’m starting to to to feel very energized. I feel wide awake and ready to to get going. Um prepare your goals whenever that time is for you and it it may be in the morning, it may be in the afternoon, it may be in the very early morning if you’re Mindy. Um but but prepare it then and then I would bias towards moving more towards your partner’s peak time, whenever they’re going to be feeling really good, uh when you go do it your partner date because you know, you want to set that up. And I I bet you that’s not going to be on a stressful day after work. It may be on a Friday night, uh earlier in the evening on a date before you have the drinks. That could absolutely be it, but but just I would I would think about what it is your what what your partner’s peak state would be but before setting that up and then you’re like Mindy said making sure you have a quiet um dedicated time and space set up for that.
Mindy: Good tip, Scott. Yes, you want your partner to be on board and their peak state is more important than your peak state for this first conversation.
Scott: As well yeah, especially if you if you’re able to set some time alone to do it to to figure out what kind of you want or your first draft of it that you might present at this meeting. Um that might be helpful.
Mindy: The last thing we want you to do before the money date is prepare an agenda and stick to it during the date. What does an agenda look like, Scott?
Scott: I don’t think an agenda has to be overwhelming. It might be three points. It might be uh get alignment on your vision. It might be uh uh determine some of the goals that you need to do for the next year to move towards that, and then to set a cadence for regular money dates and and goal reviews on an ongoing basis. Might be as simple as that, just those three things.
Mindy: And I’m going to say write this down on a piece of paper, so it’s not your computer screen that they can’t see necessarily, but this is a piece of paper that you have. This is what we’re going to do. Let’s talk about our vision. So during the money date, bring your piece of paper that says, this is my vision. This is what I think would be great to have for our family, for our couple, for our household. and compare it to what their vision is. This can be rather eye-opening, um because not everybody’s vision is the same. Really, really read through your spouse’s vision. Let them go first. Let them explain anything that you have questions about. This is what I want. This is where I see us going.
Scott: Yep. and and you know you you will know your spouse. So you may we hope a little bit better than we do. Um so so you don’t have to come with the draft if you think your spouse will just want to work from scratch with it. Uh you can come you can have written down your thought somewhere else and be prepared with them to contribute to the conversation, but you don’t need to have it prepared if that’s not the way your spouse will roll. On the other hand, if your spouse really needs something very visual, you can bring that as a starting point. Or if they are proactive, they can bring you can ask them to bring their own and begin working with that one. Uh it’s just whatever way you think is a most healthy way to work between you and your spouse, I think is the the right way to the right way for you. Um there’s a whole bunch of options here, but I think I think it is, you know, we’re we’re airing towards the side of thinking through how the situation might go for a less a less than um uh enthusiastic spouse, at least at first and how to how to how to win them on board with this plan. So just if if that’s you, think about what you need to do to get there. Oh, and by the way, you have additional homework before the money date, which is to uh win your money date, which I think we mentioned earlier, but do whatever it is you need to do that’s nice uh to bring them in uh to to to get them really excited, whether that’s the dishes for two months in a row, uh you know, creating free time with the kids, uh where you take the kids away for a day and and give your your spouse some some alone time, um or or whatever else it is that’s a set of nice, wonderful things you can do to to to make sure that your spouse is thrilled with you and excited uh for for this talk, um do it.
Mindy: Spoken like a true, I’ve been married for five minutes guy.
Scott: That’s right, yes.
Mindy: But it’s great advice. It’s great advice. You don’t want to start a whole week of fights with your spouse and then be like, hey, we ought to talk about money now.
Scott: That is not going to get a lot of buy-in. And look, if if if you have your date all set up and everything’s ready to go and you have a big fight right before it and you’re not in peak state, postpone it and try again another time, right? It’s all it is. It’s it’s look, don’t overthink this. You just want to be in a good mood and feeling and and both being bought in and excited before you start setting goals for your life together. Otherwise, you’re going to you’re going to set mediocre goals or not be, you know, really dreaming up the possibilities and bought into them.
Mindy: Right. Once your spouse has shared all of their goals, start asking how can we make this happen questions.
Scott: Yeah, so and and I would output that into a paragraph format, right? So this is when you’re talking about the vision, two separate things. The first step is the vision, which again, I would just I would just jot down in two or three paragraphs, something very simple. We are going to live here, our life’s going to look like this, day to day, you know, Jane’s going to do this and Joe’s going to do this. Um and yada yada. right and you have a couple of paragraphs on that. and that’s without worrying about the how. That’s not goals, that’s not I need this much money to get there. It’s just exactly what you’d like your life to be in three, five, seven, nine, 15 years, whatever you think is an appropriate timeline um to get there. You just you just map that out and don’t worry about the how. Then we get to the goals, the goal setting part, which I know is what Mindy’s very excited about.
Mindy: Okay, you want to come up with a plan for success. Remember, large changes are going to be met with hesitation. Your spouse is not really excited to change everything about them, especially if they are the perhaps reason that you are having this conversation to begin with. If you’re not on the same financial page, chances are good you’re listening to this, you’re the one who’s better with money, and I’m doing air quotes, but you can’t hear those. Um so come up with a plan for success. Small changes are going to give you the best opportunity for that success and they’re easier to implement and become permanent. I don’t want to cut out all my spending at Target. Maybe I’d cut out going every other week, or maybe I don’t go on weekends, or maybe I only go with a list and stick to the list and I can’t buy anything that isn’t on the list. There are lots of ways to make changes to your spending without having them be draconian and you have to do this. It feels so awful to be told what to do. So coming up with a plan for success isn’t you telling your spouse, it’s you asking your spouse, how do you think we can achieve this thing that we want to change?
Scott: That’s right. Yeah, so it’s all in the context as well of those that bigger vision like, okay, great. Now I’ve got that vision. I want to live on the lake with a boat and spend no more than 20 hours a week working a job that I love that has high impact that’s part-time. I don’t need the money. I’ve got it you know, and I’m spending most of my time with my family. We have we have friends over all the time and okay, great. I’m making this up. This is not my vision. That’s just one that I invented here, okay? Um and so that vision requires now a certain financial position and other things that you’re going to have to do. So maybe it’s maybe it’s you’re going to have to uh uh develop a 40,000 a year in passive income over the next five to seven or 10 years. Great. Now, how do I go about doing that? Now I’ve got a one-year or three-year or whatever smart goal, right? a goal that is something measurable that that I can that I can begin working towards. And then from there, you have to have the discussion about the best way to achieve that. Is it by compressing my budget? Is it by focusing on investments like real estate or other business opportunities? Or is it by just buckling down at work and getting that big promotion so that you can get the uh the next payday or whatever. Right? those are things that you’re going to have to work on with your spouse to figure out what’s going to be right. Although you should come in again with some directional guidance about how you think the best way to achieve it is so that you can initiate the conversation. This is one thing to initiate to to initiate the conversation and have a baseline of a plan. It’s another to tell your spouse what to do uh in that conversation. Again, you’re you’re driving the meeting and driving this change, um but you want to you want to do it with buy-in and get input.
Mindy: Yeah, I don’t think I can stress how important it is to make small changes first. The five-year plan is not something that gets started tomorrow, jumping in with both feet and cutting out everything or completely overhauling absolutely everything about you, because that’s going to be really, really difficult to maintain. What you want to do is look at the five-year plan. Okay, I want to have a better job. I want to increase my income. Okay, great. Let’s look at what you need to do to increase your income. You need to change jobs. Now might not be the best time to be looking for a new job, but it’s always a good time to be learning a new skill that can help you get to that next job. There’s always an opportunity to look at different jobs in the same field. a purple life said that she increased her income every time she changed jobs. So she changed jobs frequently and the old advice not to change jobs and not to look like a job hopper is no longer really valid. So if your job doesn’t have a great, your company doesn’t have a great potential for increasing your income, maybe it’s time to look at other companies. see what’s going on in the industry. Obviously, if it’s, you know, a volatile industry, maybe now is not the best time to try and get an extra couple of bucks.
Scott: Yeah I think that’s that’s 100% correct. The temptation I always have because I get so motivated because again, you’re setting the goals in peak state, you’re feeling really wonderful, you’re enthusiastic, you’re your spouse are on board, you’ve just done a million nice things for your spouse, your relationship is at peak level, lots of things are going right going into your date and you’re like motivated to make all this changes at once and you create a completely unsustainable plan. Um so I I I just did this recently and I have to walk back and go and go back and try to be a little make some smaller changes that are more sustainable for me um in order to to to move towards our vision. And so just think about that as you’re doing that and and and know that the bias is going to be towards, you know, making doing everything all at once. But if you can do something that’s sustainable, you’re going to be much more successful in the long run.
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Mindy: Um the last thing we want you to do when you’re setting up a money date is to set a regular regularly scheduled date. Uh weekly, monthly, quarterly, annually. I do believe if you’re first starting out, a weekly or monthly date is going to have better success for you. And really want to do weekly. I want you to do every Friday night, every Saturday morning, every, you know, just to check in with your spouse. Hey, we were going to do this this week. How did it work out? I keep saying spouse, I mean to say partner. I’m sorry. I’m not trying to be that person.
Scott: I I think it I think it’s fine. It’s it’s yes, we want to use we we we’ll bias towards partner, but I think that it’s I I forgive you, Mindy.
Mindy: Thank you.
Scott: Um, okay. So yeah, I I I think that that’s right. You know, set the regular cadence. And by the way, this this is needing to sound overwhelming. It shouldn’t be. You you need to spend the time you need to set up your personal vision in those types of things, but your first money date can be an hour or 45 minutes to to bang these things out. Uh perfect is the enemy of good in this case and your vision, what you want, your goals will change over time. So don’t lock in too hard to any of these things, especially at first. Write that vision, keep it in a draft, update it regularly at these weekly or monthly things as you kind of learn more and move towards it, the target will will move slightly over time. So again, you don’t have to get it perfect. Perfect’s the enemy of good when it comes to this stuff. And these regular cadence meetings don’t have to be like a two-hour in-depth board meeting where you go through every every detail in your your your your personal lives in a business-like fashion. It can be a 15 or 7minute check-in where you just kind of walk through spending really quickly and then write down some goals together that you want to get done for the next week, three to five goals each or one to two goals each, right? It does not have to be an overwhelming process if you’re going to do it especially if you’re going to do it on a higher kate a a a more frequent cadence like weekly or monthly. Uh if you’re going to do it quarterly or annually, maybe you set a little bit more time, I guess.
Mindy: I just want to highlight that when you are the one who is driving this conversation, during your your subsequent check-ins, praise your partner’s successes while kind of highlighting your failures. Because when you are not seen as perfect, when they are being praised for the things that they’re doing, the the positive reinforcement is going to get more buy-in and more cooperation down the road. And you know, this sounds this almost sounds kind of manipulative and I don’t mean it to be, but you want your partner to be on board with you. So give them every opportunity to feel good about what they’re doing.
Scott: Absolutely. I mean, look, you you’re if you’re listening to this, if if you’re listening to this together with your spouse, great, you’re not having you’re probably not going to have this this issue. But if you’re listening to this and and you’re trying to uh again, get your get your spouse to approach this and begin doing these types of things, you you need to to give a lot more uh especially at the beginning of this to to get them on board, right? And so that means if you want to do a weekly or monthly review, you’ve got to buy that uh that goodwill uh to a certain degree, right? How do you do that? You you again, go out of your way, make sure that they’re in peak state and excited to go about this and every time you go and and meet about these goals and that it’s showing it’s it’s helping them reap rewards in their lives, right? So that that comes down to, you know, how do you make it easy, how do you make it automatic, how do you make it the same time, how do you get them excited about it? And perhaps one way to do that, um which is one of another one of our tips here is reward yourself and your partner as you move towards those goals. Right? So what what is it that you like? Do you like to travel? Do you like dates? Do you like uh uh I don’t know, those are the only two things I can think of right now. But what is it that you guys like and and how do you uh uh um make sure that those are those are granted as you move towards towards the goals that you’re trying to achieve and hit a couple of weeks in a row?
Mindy: Yeah, I’d I do want to say that if you are maybe if you’re working towards fixing your finances, maybe your reward is a low-cost reward, such as a delicious chocolate bar, or we get to go out for dinner at a relatively inexpensive restaurant, or we get to go out for drinks and have a babysitter, or we get to go on a hike, whatever it is that you reward yourself with, just don’t undo all the positive work you just did by, you know, we went to the Bahamas, all expenses paid.
Scott: I guess all expenses paid is is not Make it proportional if that’s the case, right? So if you’re if you’re if you’re $50,000 in debt and you one of the milestones is paying off 25,000, well, simultaneously put together that trip to the Bahamas if that’s what if that’s what it takes to motivate you. But make sure that yeah, I I would you know, this is bigger pockets money, let’s be responsible with the the money decisions and those types of things and make sure that they’re effective and motivating you and your partner and also, you know, continue, you know, don’t completely derail you off your goals. You know, don’t finance that trip with a credit card.
Mindy: So, last tip here, you know following the money date
Scott: is to uh set up systems. I in fact, I wouldn’t even focus on the work necessarily after your money your your money date. I would focus on setting up the systems that will automate that. So for for example, one of my things is I really want to improve my daily routine that I do uh uh every single day. I want to make sure I get a couple of things in um around exercise, reading, uh like self- education, um yes, I’m I’m starting to to be one of those guys and I’m going to go into meditation. Uh always been skeptical of that, but enjoying that so far. Uh and and so I’m just starting to do some of those types of things and my my the the key to succeeding at that is to set up a system that makes sure that that happens no matter what every single day and that there’s no way that it can’t happen, right? And so that’s been first thing in the morning for me. um I have a little small routine and then I also have the option to extend any part of that, but I never missed my six-minute routine, um and I or I guess seven-minute routine. and I uh I I can extend it if I am feeling good about it and want to keep doing it.
Mindy: Well, that’s interesting that it takes you six or seven minutes. I love that. That’s anybody can do six or seven minutes. You can do a lot, almost anything for six or seven minutes.
Scott: Yeah, I mean you can, you know, if if for example, uh tracking your spending was a big part of that, you could review your your spending for one of seven minutes every day, right? You can, you know, you you you can browse one article for two minutes every single day, right? on on on a topic that you’re trying to learn more about, right? you can um I don’t know, there’s a lot of things you can do, but if you can automate it so that you’re able to just do at least one minute of activity every single day that moves you towards one of your your you know, your top five to seven goals, um I think that will be that will make a huge difference.
Mindy: I completely agree, Scott.
Scott: Or or better yet, do nothing and have it happen anyways, right? So that’s like I’m going to automate that part of my paycheck goes straight into my 401k. even better. So.
Mindy: And we want to hear about your money date successes. Because this is so key to so many other couples that we know who are financially successful, because the money date is so key to their success, we want to hear about your success too. Send us an email mindy@biggerpockets.com, scott@biggerpockets.com if you would like to share a private message. go to our Facebook group and share it with the entire group. The group is there to give you to boost you up, not to make you feel bad about any past issues that you have had. They are here to support you in your in your journey and they are super supportive. We have some really great members in our group. You can find that at facebook.com/groups/bpmoney. But we really want to hear how what’s working for you or do you have are you hitting up on an issue that you need some help with? We can crowd source that.
Scott: Absolutely. Um, while while we’re there, um one of the things that can that people can struggle with is just basic getting started and templates. like an example can be helpful sometimes. So again, we’ll have examples, I think there’ll be about four worksheets. Uh one will be and these are just simple Microsoft Word worksheets. We are not goal setting professionals, we are goal setting nerds. So feel free to download them and print them out and modify them however you like uh at biggerpockets.com/moneyshow157 uh if you’re interested in those types of things. Um there’s also a couple of really good books on the subject. Uh one that I read recently was The Miracle Morning and the and more specifically the Miracle Morning millionaires, which is by Hal Elrod and David Osborne. Really enjoyed that and that um I think actually made a big impact on some of the goals that I’m setting. I’m still not necessarily a morning person, but I really liked what they had to say in the book. Um the power of I just
Mindy: Hold on, I want to I want to address that comment. I’m not a morning person. Scott once wrote an article that says, I don’t have to get up early to be successful in life, or something like that on the bigger pockets blog.
Scott: Yeah I I I do I do see the benefits in in getting up early. I’m just not very consistent about it and don’t think I will or need to be. but I think that that having a daily routine that encompasses some of the big things and the habits that you need to to to to set to become successful over time, I think that’s critical. I am still skeptical about whether that needs to specifically happen in the morning, uh especially the early morning, or if it can happen in the late morning or afternoon.
Mindy: Well, I I think that you can sleep later than some of us and you can also stay up later. So if you’ve got the same, you know, 16 hours of awakeness, it’s just shifted on the clock, who am I to tell you when your 16 hours has to start?
Scott: Yeah, or should I I I thinking open mind and I’m I I am beginning to attempt to get up earlier. We’ll see how long I sustain it, Mindy. Maybe maybe if I sustain it for a long time and and be able to get up earlier, I’ll change my tune on it. What what’s another book you like on goal setting, Mindy?
Mindy: Scott, I really like The Power of Positive Thinking by Norman Vincent Peale. This book is older than dirt, but it is such a good book and you really it’s I have the I have a problem with people who say, oh, just change your mindset and everything will change. Well, no, you also have to do work towards your goals, but changing your mindset can help you start to believe that you can achieve those goals. So this is not a book about uh oh, just change your mindset and everything will fall into place. But it is a book on how you can change your mindset and help yourself get to where you’re going. If you think, what is that phrase, if you think you can or you think you can’t, you’re right. Well, yeah, whether you think you can. Yeah. So this helps you get in a better place to start believing that change is possible. It doesn’t make the the work non-existent. You still have to do the work.
Scott: That’s right. Yeah. Um, I I on on that note, there’s another uh another kind of three more, I would say, practical um books that are kind of more templated, are going to be journals that that um I think we we we you know, I’ve used or we’ve both used in the past. Um so the first is living your best year ever, which is a journal from Darren Hardy. Uh the second is the Bigger Pockets Intention Journal, which is a 90-day journal. The the Living your best year ever will be a one-year uh 52 week journal. And then the 12 week year is another book that kind of gives you a framework around um setting goals in quarterly chunks or 12 week chunks with a week off at the end for um a break. Um all all five of these books, the Miracle Morning, Miracle Morning millionaires, the Power of Positive Thinking, living your best year ever, 12 week year and the Intention Journal from Bigger Pockets are going to be linked to again the show notes at biggerpockets.com/moneyshow157.
All right, so we’re going to recap this, uh, and if you’re just listening and you want a 90-second overview, we’ll this will be it. Um, so let’s let let let’s dive into it. What are the rules that we have for the money date? One, set them in peak state, right? Make sure that you are in your most energetic and enthusiastic uh uh uh state of mind before going in setting the goals and then do whatever is in your power to make sure that your spouse is in their peak state coming into the conversation. Um do your homework and come prepared with an agenda, be ready to drive the conversation and don’t frame it from an accusatory position. Frame it as a you’re in this together and we’re going to go out there and build our best life together and here’s how money can support that vision.
Mindy: Yes, Scott said do your homework. One of the things that you need to do before the money date is be prepared. Track your spending and your net worth. So you come to the date with a position of uh knowledge. This is where we are at right now. This is where we want to be. Have your spouse prepare prepare a vision for the family and you prepare a vision for the family. This isn’t something that you should prepare together. You should each prepare it separately and then come to the date to have that discussion. Once you’ve tracked your spending, review the numbers to see if there’s any patterns that are easily changeable. The money wins that you get in the beginning are going to be the small wins that you can cut out without actually missing them.
Scott: Yep, that’s right. Um, what during the money date, make sure you’ve got that uh mutually agreed upon time. You’re both energetic and in peak state. You got the quiet and alone time to do it. You got that prepared agenda. Get alignment on that vision. Mindy said prepare them separately. That I think that is the best way to go about doing it, but know your spouse and if that’s not going to work and you want to you have to start from scratch together and that’s the healthier way to do it for you guys, have that discussion beforehand and do that. Um discuss what needs to be done to achieve the vision. That’s where you begin framing up those goals. Come up with that plan and then set a cadence to review progress towards it regularly. While you’re doing that, again, focus on progress, not perfection. Good is better than perfect. Um and begin working towards those goals. Don’t set enormous goals up front that are going to require you to be a a perfect paragon of virtue and success right from the beginning. Focus on something that is easily achievable that can be done every single day without fail and if you can, just a a minute or two on each goal per day can make meaningful progress towards it.
Mindy: Yes, highlight your spouse’s successes. Your partner is probably not the driving force for this change. So you want to make sure that you’re highlighting what they’re doing right. Don’t really focus on their negatives, but maybe focus on the failures that you have had that week or the missteps that you have made. Hey, I’ve done this, but I can do better next week. It that sounds so manipulative, Scott, and I don’t mean it to be manipulative, but you want them to feel good about what they’re doing. So continue to highlight what they’re doing and praise their successes.
Scott: Yeah, I I just think genuine joy of working towards the goals together and a a system of rewards that you set up that um really um that that you enjoy, but really your spouse enjoys uh is the right way to go about uh uh a setting those things up.
Mindy: I love it. I love it. And when you’re having your in the beginning, when you’re having your more regularly scheduled meetings, weekly or monthly is the best choice for you right now, just so you can continue to stay up stay on top of your goals. If you have a goal and hey, we’re going to change our finances, talk to you in a year, it’s probably not going to set you up for success. Continually talking about it, revisiting frequently is going to give you the most chance for success. See what’s working and what isn’t working. And if there’s something that just isn’t working, scratch it or move it to the back table and focus on the things that are working.
Scott: Focus on progress, not perfection, and and keep it simple. This is not an hour a week commitment that you guys both need to do to review everything in detail. It can just be a small check-in um to be keeping you on track and reset. Last tip here, um is I I think a big thing to do as you’re kind of heading into the new year and setting these goals is it can feel like a vacuum when you’re talking about finances um you know, when you when you you’re maybe like the stuff that we’re talking about on the money show is not stuff that your family, friends, or colleagues are talking about and it’s kind of a different viewpoint on how to how to live your life and how to run your your personal financial situation. Um and that can be overwhelming or demotivating. So what I recommend is finding a way to saturate yourself with more of this type of stuff. Um and one way to do that is social media. So we’ve got of course the Bigger Pockets Money Facebook group, the Bigger Pockets real estate rookie, Facebook group, you can just type these into Facebook and find them. You can follow uh uh money folks or some of the many of the guests that we’ve had on Instagram. Um you can join other communities. Uh hey, I you know, I love our bigger pockets money money money community and I’m the most active there, but I’m also a member of other communities out there, like the Mustachian community for Mr. Money Mustache and the ChooseFI has a great community, the FinCon community is great. But go join these communities online, um especially the Bigger Pockets money community, of course. And just saturate yourself with that stuff. I think it’s going to be a lot more healthy and we’ll keep you motivated and focused on your goals as you see that kind of those kinds of things popping up in your feed rather than unhealthy stuff.
Mindy: That’s really funny that you say that Scott as I scroll through Facebook that’s basically all I see is Bigger Pockets Money, Bigger Pockets official group, real estate rookie, Choose fi, Choose fi real estate uh and one that I am a member of because I’m a real estate agent and it’s I’m always thinking and talking about money and real estate and I’m doing a lot with money and real estate and it’s just
Scott: I’m not I’m not hearing bad news. I’m not hearing about public political events or whatever. I’m hearing about people succeeding with money and tough interesting nuanced debate on, you know, various different items like should I go with this index fund versus this one that are almost so close identical the same that it doesn’t matter at all, yet several hundred people have an opinion on it. That’s healthy stuff to be surrounding yourself with or more healthy than a lot of the other junk that used to show up on my Facebook feed. So that’s what I just encourage people to do is is is figure out a way to surround yourself with that stuff. Um turn off the news, turn off the the the other stuff that’s
Mindy: Yeah, and you will find that you are not the only frugal weirdo on the planet.
Scott: Yeah, you know, if you if you can, at least on a default basis and make it so that the default is you’re surrounding yourself with with like-minded folks in the community because there are millions of them and there’s lots of enthusiasm.
Mindy: It can be really difficult when you feel like you’re an island and nobody else cares about money and nobody else talks about money and nobody else is cutting back and everybody else has a better car and everybody else has better clothes and better everything everything. That’s not the case. In most situations, that’s not the case at all. So it’s it’s really refreshing to get involved with a community that has the same mindset that you do.
Scott: Well, should we get out of here, Mindy?
Mindy: We should. Scott from episode 157 of the Bigger Pockets Money Podcast. He is Scott Trench. I am Mindy Jensen and we will see you next year. The joke that never ever gets old.
Scott: The joke that never gets old. I’m excited. I’m excited for that one. This has been quite a year. All right. Bye, everybody.
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Mindy: Bye.
