Scott: Welcome to the Bigger Pockets Money Podcast, where we interview Aaron and Cheryl from Inclusive Game Works and talk about starting a wholehearted business using grant money. Hello, hello, hello. My name is Scott Trench and with me, uh, as always, but for the first time, is our senior producer of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast, Kaylin Bennett.
Mindy: Hi, everyone.
Scott: Mindy was not feeling well today and Kaylin is an expert on this particular business and always brings expertise and we’re so excited. Kaylin and I are here to make financial independence less scary, less just for somebody else, to introduce you to every money story because we truly believe financial freedom is attainable for everyone, no matter when or where you’re starting.
Mindy: That’s right, Scott. Whether you want to retire early and travel the world, go on to make big time investments in assets like real estate, start your own business, get a grant, we’ll help you reach your financial goals and get money out of the way so you can launch yourself towards your dreams.
Scott: Kaylin, welcome to the Bigger Pockets Money podcast as a host today.
Mindy: Oh my gosh, it’s crazy, Scott. I’m so excited to be here with you. It’s uh definitely different coming on to host a show versus being I guess, uh, what is it the Wizard of Oz, like the man behind the curtain, you know? I feel like we’re we’re pulling it off today. But we have such a good story. This is a story I’ve personally been following as a producer for a number of months, uh, where a group of our local Colorado business owners came together and they created an inclusive pinball controller so anyone can play pinball, which is just amazing. And during this show, we’re going to go through all the business aspects of it and how, you know, maybe you can start your own business using grant money. So I think it’s good for any entrepreneur, any small business owner to listen to.
Scott: Awesome. And and remind us again how how you know Aaron and Cheryl?
Mindy: Yeah, I know them per I just honestly, I met them just out and about in Colorado. So I met them through um, the the brewery community. Uh, a member of the group, Zach, owns a brewery called Chain Reaction, which I’ve gone to many times. I met him through there. Cheryl and her husband Dean, uh, used to own an amazing brewery called Dead Hippie. And so I I just met them out and about. They started telling me about their truly game-changing business and eventually I just had to be like, you guys, this is too cool not to talk about. We we got to have you on the show.
Scott: Awesome. So it sounds like you’ve spent many happy hours with them.
Mindy: All right.
Scott: Yep. So should we bring in um, Cheryl and Aaron?
Mindy: Yeah, let’s do it. Today we’re talking to Cheryl and Aaron about their business, Inclusive Game Works, which produces and designs inclusive pinball controllers. Cheryl and Aaron, welcome to the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. I am so excited to talk to you today.
Guest 2: Excited to be here.
Guest 1: Hi, Kaylin. Thanks so much for having us. We’re excited to be here.
Scott: Awesome. Well, to start the show, could Aaron, could you tell us a little bit about what Inclusive Game Works is and what what the business mission is?
Guest 1: Sure, absolutely. So this is a group of six of us, um, a group of friends who came together with a very broad mission of just increasing inclusion for people with disabilities. Our specific start point was the controller that Kaylin mentioned that is an inclusive connection for people with disabilities to play pinball, but our goal is is to go much further.
Mindy: Um, so Aaron, I think like, I would love to start to dig in and I I want I I’d love to hear about how how did the story unfold? How did you decide to make inclusive Game Works and what was the impetus to go ahead and design this controller?
Guest 1: A bunch of us in this six-person group were pretty into pinball. Sounds nerdy, but it’s really fun. Um, so we’re we have pinball games in our basements. We all get together, we play pinball. Um, one of our co-founders has muscular dystrophy and he’s in a motorized chair and can’t play pinball um, in the traditional stand-up method. And he was always giving us a hard time about pinball. Oh, what’s so great about pinball? We’re like, oh, come on, it’s really fun. Well, we got to the bottom of it. It’s not fun. It wasn’t fun for him. He wasn’t included. So we played pinball and it would take us away, you know, the group away and he was on the sidelines. So, we decided to do something about it. Specifically, my husband woke up with an idea and said, I I think we’re going to figure this out. And with the brain child of all six of us, and it took all six of us, we got to where the controller is now.
Mindy: That’s amazing. I’ve seen the controller and it’s a truly revolutionary product. So, Cheryl, to start the show, can you kind of give us an idea, paint a picture for us, what does this controller look like and how does it make pinball more inclusive?
Guest 2: Well, it started off sort of as a, uh, Frankenstein looking project. It was basically Aaron’s husband Joe bending Plexiglas by hand and installing these huge buttons on it and setting it on our buddy Zach’s lap and deciding the width and depth and height and uh, circumference of the buttons. I mean, everything was taken into consideration. And then ultimately, it became much more of a sort of a, uh, portable handheld kind of a hexagon-shaped, uh, console controller. Uh, much more sexy, uh, much more edgy because we knew our buddy Zach was not going to be okay unless it was sexy and edgy and fit into the pinball community.
Mindy: And just so our audience knows, it 100% is. It comes in multiple colors. Uh, it is a really big hexagon shape, but there’s neon, there’s sparkles. I even think I saw a rainbow one at one point. Uh, and they have like custom end caps where if you have like a Jurassic Park pinball, you can have an end cap with like a Jurassic Park T-Rex on it. It’s it’s a really cool product. And how it looks is, uh, the controller is handheld by someone and there’s a cable that goes straight into the machine, so you can be sitting, you can be standing. Uh, if someone has limited mobility, they can use one hand. So I think like, just to give our our audience sort of the picture of what this looks like, it is a really slick design.
Scott: So how much time and and and money and and how did you go about creatively building this this controller to get the first the first prototype or working version of it?
Guest 1: The very first one, almost no money at all. Time for sure. Um, it was a labor of love. It was an investment of a lot of time with our group. There were multiple nights in the basement trying different renditions, phoning friends, asking for advice, um really just using our network to create the first one. I think it cost us less than I’d say $10 to make our first prototype. The first prototype had exposed electrical wire. Yeah, it it wasn’t it wasn’t great.
Scott: Awesome. And so you got it working, I assume, uh, and what was, uh, uh Zach’s reaction to this first prototype or the first working version?
Guest 1: Gosh, hopefully I can get through this without tears. So, um, it was it was a beautiful moment. So, he came over when the electrician was here. We didn’t want to hook it up until we were pretty confident it would work. And the electrician said, no, we’re ready, go for it. And Zach played his, you know, first game of pinball with us and it was pretty emotional for for all of us in the group. It was, it’s not often, Zach shared this with us that it’s not often that things come back to him in terms of, um, abilities or new things that he can do. There’s there’s not a lot of new that happens in his world. So his, uh, wife and kids came back. We played pinball most of the night. It was it was really it was really special.
Scott: And and so when did you, you know, when did you decide, hey, we’ve got this this invention that is do a wonderful thing for your community and and Zack as an individual, when did you decide to make it a a business into a business opportunity?
Guest 1: It was actually Zach’s idea. You know, all of us got together to do this and we said, hey man, we we we made it for you just so that we could all play together and have fun. And he said, I think it can be more. And his wife, Alicia pulled me aside and said, I think this can really help people. This could be a really big deal. She said, so we’ve got to do something with it. And everybody looked at my husband and myself and said, you you guys are going to run with this, right? I was like, oh no, we’re all going. Let’s let’s go.
Mindy: Aaron and Cheryl, I think what’ll help our audience a little bit is, can you tell us about the key players? Who the six of you are, how I I kind of put it this way, how these six superpowers of pinball business acumen genius came together to to make this machine. So let’s start, Aaron, um, you and your husband Joe, like, can you explain a little bit about what you did for the business? I know that you guys are kind of like the sales front of it, and then go through the other, um, four players that came together.
Guest 1: Sure. Joe and myself both have backgrounds in sales, um, corporate executive level sales, but we’re also, I think all of us in the group are entrepreneurs at heart. You know, we see a problem and we want to fix it. I think our minds are always open. So, Joe and I have, we started small businesses before, so we knew kind of the foundation of it, you know, starting the business. Um, Joe and I really just started, started the networking, started the sales process, you know, what does the product need to look like? How do we get it to market? Um, some social media stuff, but it’s it’s tough when we talk about each individual player because our roles overlap. I think in any small business, roles are are hard to define in small business because you all have to all have to be involved. But so it’s my myself and Joe, Dean and Cheryl. Dean is our technical guru for sure. He is the one who helps us with most of the, um, electrical components. Cheryl keeps us functioning, keeps us organized, making sure that we are, you know, keeping everything documented and following the processes and procedures we need to, which is helpful in a group like ours. And then you have Zach and Alicia. Alicia is is the heart. She is the one who is so, it’s so easy to listen to her and to understand where she’s coming from and how people with disabilities can, you know, what we can do to be more inclusive. Um, so I would say she’s really our our heart. And then of course, Zach, um, he always laughs because he’s kind of our our poster boy, if you will, but um, he’s he does so much. He does a lot of our social media. He is constantly helping us collaborate on the design work. He is very heavily involved in the customization piece that pieces that we work on. Um, so hopefully that gives some enough about each of us.
Mindy: Yeah. No, I think that that is a really special combination because you have sales, you have design, you have a true product tester, and you have people that like truly care about it. Your business has only been going for less than a year. Is that correct?
Guest 1: The prototype was last summer, but our business really started the beginning of this year.
Mindy: Yeah, which is that’s incredible acceleration. So, I like want to really take a moment and let our audience kind of take that in for a minute. If you bring the right people together, you can really do anything if you have the right pieces together. So, I’d like to shift a little bit. How did you go from just this group of friends maybe going through a brewery, talking about this prototype to shifting it into a true business. Did you decide to have an LLC? Is this a nonprofit? When did this sort of come together?
Guest 2: I think it was really, Aaron was the instrumental one in researching options for the grant funding. And sort of at the same time, we were, we knew that it was going to be a business idea. So now it’s about the choreography of keeping the grant funding and all of the design and research and documentation separate from the business side of it. Two separate things working at the same time, but the what the grant funding allowed us to do was really build controllers, get them in people’s hands, um, because like Aaron mentioned, it’s we’re carving out new territory. Like this is uncharted territory, um, and we really need the the data from the people that were impacting. We need the feedback from them to determine, okay, where do we go as the business? Um, so for right now, we’re really focused on the grant and the goals of the grant, which is including as many people as possible within Colorado to enjoy the game of Pinball.
Mindy: I love that.
Scott: Well, I I would just love to learn more about this grant. Uh, a grant is is a, uh, essentially a gift. There’s no loan, you don’t have to pay it back. How did you get it? How much, how much is this grant? What are there stipulations or things you have to do in order to continue receiving it or?
Guest 1: Absolutely. So, I did a Google search on grants available in Colorado for advancing, um, efforts for people with disabilities. And there are, there are grants, there are federal grants, there are state grants. This one in particular, uh, it fit our bucket. Um, you really do need to read the requirements for grants because this grant in particular had two components. One was really designed for, you know, making buildings more accessible or businesses who, you know, wanted to, you know, improve the ramps going into their business. So physical, you know, accessibility improvements. The other one, which is the one we applied for, was really the goal is to improve the lives of people living with disability disabilities in Colorado. So that one fit our bill. Obviously, you wouldn’t think that a grant would necessarily fund playing pinball, um, but the goal of that grant really is to improve the lives of Coloradans. So we read the requirements, um, which were pretty minimal. Um, we did have to have a board, you know, you needed to have an formal infrastructure to to apply, which which we did. We created that very quickly and, um, then it was just really answering their questions, being being mindful of of why they’re asking what they’re asking and then really being clear with your intent. So, I think we as a group did a nice job of being very clear with exactly what our goal was. And we were told we made it to the finals. There was a final review committee. We had to provide some additional information and then within a few weeks we had a check from the state literally in the mail for $10,000. So it was it was pretty exciting.
Mindy: This is where things get a little interesting. So anybody considering a grant, you got to be careful with how you spend your money. So the way that we look at it is really we have two buckets of our business. We have the grant bucket and then we have let’s call it general business. And the grant money specifically needs to be used to help people’s lives, to get Coloradans out using our product, playing pinball. So we’ve tried to be very mindful of that spend. So that has gone to, you know, research and development, our prototypes, um, getting feedback from the community, putting our devices, you know, our controllers into different breweries, different places where people can come and play. So we’ve used our money primarily for that initially, and then now, you know, we’re coming to the end of the year and also the end of our grant money spend, and it’s really about inventory. We want to have enough inventory to get these controllers into as many hands as we can.
Mindy: That’s, that’s really wonderful, Aaron. I think that that’s an excellent strategy. I think a lot of our listeners who maybe want to start a small business are really wondering, if you get a grant, uh, can you be a for-profit business long-term?
Guest 1: You certainly can. We get that question a lot, if we’re a nonprofit, and I would always recommend, like with any business, always talk to your accountant. You know, whoever your business advisor is, get some advice before you make those decisions. It’s fairly easy to transition from a corporation or an LLC to transition to a non-profit in the future. It is much more difficult to go the other way around. So, we started off, um, as a corporation and we are absolutely eligible for these grants. We look at the profitability side. That’s more of our retail side. That’s more of that like general business bucket I mentioned. The grant money, we’re really focused on just getting out into the community. So most of the money for the grant, well, all of the money that we’ve spent from the grant is really for that purpose. The retail side is where we we absolutely have the opportunity to be profitable. Those are our our retail sales, you know, being involved in expos, things like that. Also our national, the grant was specific to Colorado. Obviously, this scope is global, which we didn’t see that coming. Um, but it is, you know, we we are we are international now. So the the business, the general business side is really where we’re advancing that. So I would encourage it really depends on what your organization is trying to accomplish. We were we were people first and profits secondary, if you will. Man, it would be great. Um, but our focus might be a little bit different. So I think it’s important to define where those priorities are when you enter into like grant applications and things.
Mindy: That makes so much sense. Um, you know, I before we jump into how you spent a little bit more of the grant money, and that’s in events and networking, we know that you went to several pinball expos, I’d like to take a step back and really talk about the design phase because you went from this plexiglass wires everywhere sort of prototype to this really what we talked about earlier, sleek controller. So Cheryl, I’d like to direct this next question to you. Um, at what point did you find it necessary to bring on a designer, um, or or extra vendors to actually create this product?
Guest 2: Yeah, we knew pretty, pretty quickly. Um, we knew that the big plexiglass laptop tray was not going to be a good solution long term. So that’s when we leveraged our friend Tom, who is with 5280 makers, and he 3D printed the initial, uh, design for us. And honestly, he nailed it, uh, pretty quickly right off the bat. He listened to what we were, what our concept was. I mean, we were literally showing him hand motions like it should do this, um, and it should be able to be placed on a lap or it should be able to be positioned in such a way that depending on someone’s hand mobility limitations that they could use it in multi different positions. So he listened to all that and the first design came out and I think we all screamed with delight. So it was amazing.
Mindy: I think Aaron, did you have some tears?
Guest 1: Oh, there have been tears on every level in this during this whole process. Lots of tears.
Scott: Can you tell us, um, a little bit about how much a controller costs and what you plan to sell it for? The unit economics, if you will.
Guest 1: Sure. The unit itself, I’m going to have to give you an average. There’s a lot that goes into it. It’s, um, on average around $375, less, um, if we’re using, you know, if it’s within the grant scope, you know, then we’re really just trying to cover costs, things like that. Um, it can go a little bit more if there’s customization, but on average, uh, 375 and that is both the external component and the internal harness that connects the um electrical components inside the machine.
Scott: Okay, awesome. And how much does it cost you to make one of these?
Guest 1: Right now, um, it’s probably a third of that.
Mindy: Yeah, and that doesn’t include, I’m sure, like you had to pay for design work, you had to pay for multiple additions and and types, uh, test prototypes of your controller. So I’m sure like a fair portion of the grant money went to all those different types of tests. Is that correct?
Guest 1: Correct. Yes, absolutely.
Scott: Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that that that seems those are very reasonable. like that’s a very normal spread between, you know, um a retail price and and cost to produce for a product in that price range, I believe. That was our goal.
Scott: And so how do you market the the product and plan to to sell it? How big how um, how many do you think you can sell long-term?
Guest 1: That that changes almost weekly for us, um, which is, which is really great. It’s, it’s very cool. So initially we thought we’d be successful if we sold, I don’t know, maybe 50 controllers over time. Um, we’ve currently sold 22 in a matter of weeks. So our projections are having to shift. It it truly it’s hard to explain our niche inside of this industry. The pinball industry is is well established. I mean people, there’s a lot of people that play pinball. You wouldn’t necessarily think it, but it is like a very popular industry. And this is a completely new concept to anyone who’s familiar with pinball. So you’re asking to change gameplay, you’re asking to consider, you know, a different way of playing and it’s just we’re carving a new path. So it’s really about the adoption of people in the pinball community as well as encouraging people with disabilities to come and and try it. You know, it’s it’s a totally new concept. So there’s a lot of education. I think that I mean, the sky is is the limit, is so so cheesy, but we don’t, I don’t know that we have a real scope of it yet, Scott. 15% of Americans are are registered as having some kind of a disability. So I think the market is it’s big and you know, you go internationally and similar statistics, not quite as high as the US, um, but similar statistics. I think if we can reach people, I I think this will continue to grow, and I think we’ll have different developments and different products. a lot of we’re learning a lot as we go through this.
Scott: Yeah, you know, there there’s lots of ways to think about a market. And you know, one way is, oh, you know, there’s uh, you know, X percent of people play pinball and X percent of people with disabilities will therefore play um pinball if we get access to this. But I think in your case, you kind of are making this accessible and this this really exciting um thing there. And so you could argue that there’s a there’s a chance to make a really big market here by making this a pastime that a much higher percentage of people with disabilities for example, want to play um or want to pursue um than maybe even the the general public in there. And so there’s kind of like this concept of, what’s the, what is, how do I think about the market one way and then how do I think about making a market which is potentially what you could do.
Guest 1: You know, that continues to evolve our conversations as as a business and as a group because, you know, we really are paving the way and it’s exciting and it’s it’s fun. It’s just, you know, it’s interesting to be the first.
Mindy: I think so too. And I I I’ve actually played with the controller and I think the thing that’s really special about it is it is truly accessible to anyone. Like if I’m tired and I’ve had a long day and I don’t want to stand at a pinball machine, me as an able-bodied person can play this controller and can do really well and get a high score. And I think that that’s the really special thing about it is like, yes, it’s inclusive, but anyone can use it. Kids can use it that are maybe having a hard time learning how to play pinball. So I think that that’s really special. So I want to shift a little bit and I I’d love to talk about some marketing you guys have done. So, I think a lot of other people start to experience how accessible this pinball controller was through many events you’ve done. Can you tell us a little bit about the expos you’ve gone to and how that has become a big tenant of your of your marketing process?
Guest 2: I mean, really, it’s a lot about getting out there, uh, exposing different populations to the product, shaking hands, uh, letting them see it in action. Um, and so I think we’ve done three expos so far, Aaron. So there’s been Atlanta, Chicago, and then here locally. Um, and we’ve had so many industry partners that have been kind to us and allowed us to share booth space, you know, no no charge, you know, things like that. So you start to develop those relationships in the industry too that previously would not have been there. It’s been it’s been an amazing journey.
Mindy: And I hear that someone really interesting and exciting in the industry uh, played the controller. Can you tell us a little bit about that development?
Guest 1: So, Stern Pinball is one of the largest manufacturers of pinball machines worldwide. Um, the majority of games that we play are are made by Stern. So we’re at the Pinball Expo in Chicago and you know, start to hear this like everybody’s, you know, rustling around us like, oh gosh, they’re like, what’s happening? We don’t know. And the founder of Stern Pinball, Gary Stern was wandering around and introducing himself and saying hi to, you know, friends in the industry and things. And and he stopped by and checked out our controller. And just had amazingly positive feedback for us like, of course we should be doing this. What a way to go. You guys are amazing. You’re well, we’re all you know, fan girling. Oh my gosh, it’s Gary Stern. Um, but it was really cool to see someone who was such a pioneer in Pinball and continues to drive Pinball have an interest in, you know, our little controller as we were seeing it then. Um, just really good feedback again, like Cheryl said from everyone in the community. We had designers, we had developers all coming and talking to us and checking out the product and congratulating our design work and, you know, the engineering behind it. So it was a lot of validation, but also a lot of really good exposure to the folks that basically are validating our path forward, which is great.
Mindy: Yeah, I think that that’s truly incredible. And the other big thing that came out of your Chicago Pinball Expo is Zach and Joe, who um, just to remind our audience is Aaron’s husband, actually got to speak to a room full of people about the controller. Uh, which is pretty amazing. I’d like to tea up a clip here with Zach, who, as a reminder to our audience, is the gentleman with a disability who this controller was designed for. And this is him speaking at the Chicago Pinball Expo about his experience designing this controller, learning this controller, and what it’s given back to him. So, um, we’re going to go ahead and play that for you.
Guest: What this controller has kind of done is give something back to me. Um, it’s given things back to people that we’ve met that have one hand or have been in an accident, have back problems or hard hard time seeing or standing. It’s it’s giving back. I get to sit with my kids now. Maybe I can’t go throw the ball or maybe I can’t go for that long hike, but we’ve still been able to bond and I’ve been able to have that parent moment doing things with my kids. And and day nightts with my wife as well, just getting to play a couple of games and it might seem like a silly game, but that’s a part of my life that was given back. And I think in many areas that that could be a life-saving thing. And I think talking also on we’ve talked on the social involvement of encouraging people with disabilities to get out into the community and prove that they’re capable of their friends and checking it out. ADA is just the law. It gets me into the building, right? Inclusivity is the desire to have being there. What, what is more than just giving me into that table with the food to eat? What helps me and other people with disabilities or whatever they’re going through, what makes them feel like they should? And I think that that is the biggest key to what we’re doing is that everyone should have that choice to play.
Mindy: So hearing Zach speak, that was really passionate and powerful. What impact did it have at the conference? Was the room filled with tears? Were people in awe of the product? What happened?
Guest 1: It was inspiring. It what I’ve learned through this this whole process is if we talk about it, the conversations that come up are amazing. You know, just asking the question, do you have someone in your lives who have has a disability that might benefit from a controller and coming out in to play pinball with us? It’s amazing the mindshare, but also the conversations that come from it. So, you know, a gentleman in the room was from a university in England and he was talking about, well, how could we include additional like robotics and things like that? And just it’s very cool to see that everybody wants to come together to help boost this idea. It’s not maybe your traditional business model where you really want to keep things close because you don’t want someone to run with your idea. It really has just been very just a lot of camaraderie and a lot of collaboration and I feel like the room was that when we were at the expo as well.
Scott: Um, what what what is uh, what’s what’s next for you guys here? And also I want to chime in with, do you have, um, have you patented this technology? Is this uh something that, um, how are you thinking about the future? Are there more inventions coming down the road? How are you going to um, uh, solidify the business today and what’s what’s up in the docket for the for 2024?
Guest 1: We are patent pending. That was one of our initiatives that we did um early on this year. Also one of the lessons learned from the grant, the grant money could not be spent um on any legal fees. So make sure you do do the research and find out what grant money can be spent on or or what the restrictions are. So that was on us as a group to to pay for the patent pending. We reached out to a few different attorneys, we got some advice, called friends, you know, used all our phone of friends that we have and just got some advice that we probably don’t need to hire a an attorney for $25,000 to go full patent at this point. We registered on Legal Zoom, you know, we really are grassroting this and it’s it’s going well. And we went through the Legal Zoom process, very easy and, um, they send you a packet, you do the research, you know, fill out all your answers, send it back to them and they have someone review it and see if if there’s any other products that compete with yours and we received our patent pending within a few months of submitting our initial, um, application for for patent.
Mindy: That’s amazing. Well, congrats. Uh, I do have one more question for for both of you. You have this amazing patent pending, you’ve done all these incredible events, you’ve gone from nothing to something in less than a year, which is pretty incredible for a small business. I I really want to know, what impact has this had on the community in Colorado? Are folks with disabilities hitting high scores now? Are you seeing more uh, community in bars? What does this look like for you now?
Guest 2: It’s pretty amazing. Uh, shortly after our prep call, Kaylin, I got a text from Zach that he had hit a personal best high score, Grand champion score, uh, on the game he was playing. I mean, that sounds nerdy and silly maybe to the average person, but this is an accomplishment that would have previously been impossible six months ago for him. And now he’s included in that community in this way. And we’ve had countless stories from all around the world, uh, people that are impacted by the controller, uh, who can now, uh, be included at the local brewery or in their in their own home and and socialize with friends and family in a way they couldn’t previously do. Uh, so just a number of stories like that, but also the awareness, uh, raising that awareness and the accessibility is one issue, but the inclusivity has been amazing too. Uh, our industry partners from all over have been incredible. Uh, in fact, one of them actually uh, changed their interface to align with the way that ours hooks up to the machine. I mean, it’s just unbelievable how open people’s hearts have been.
Guest 1: You asked earlier about plans for 2024 and in the future, what does it look like. I think our goals for the future are just to continue with what we’re doing. The growth that we’ve seen, the expansion of interest in our products just continues to grow. Where I really see us being strong is in customization. We’ve developed our initial controller with one design in mind and we designed it to try to fit as, you know, fit as many disabilities as we could to make, you know, the controller something that rolls, so people can hold it different ways, but there’s so much more. We we are constantly getting requests. So this is, this is my disability. This is how I would engage with the controller. Can we do that? And so far our answer has been, let’s find out. And with customization, I I know that a lot of times in business customization can get a little scary. I mean how many skews are we going to have? How much production are we going to have? But there’s also a lot of advancements that can come when you offer that customization. Our our scope will be wider. you know, and we’ll charge accordingly. The design time that it takes, the, you know, additional manufacturing, if components are more expensive, that same profitability model will scale on on any type of project that we work on in the future. So I think continuing down with customer down the customization road will be will be really critical for us. And then I think as people keep talking about it. I mean it just amazes me the emails that we keep getting of, hi, we saw you on, you know, at this tournament or we saw this, you know, at this expo or we saw you on Facebook. Um people were coming up to Zach and Joe, who are primarily the faces on Facebook at the Expo in Chicago saying, I just really wanted to meet you. I’ve been watching you on Facebook. We’re like, really? This is so cool. So, I think we’ll continue with that scope, um, as well as again, you know, keeping open to to other ideas that come up. We’re a pretty entrepreneurial spirited group, so I think we’ll keep coming up with stuff.
Scott: And this is going to be your first holiday season while the product’s live, right?
Guest 1: Yes.
Scott: That’ll be, I think that’ll be exciting. This is this this could potentially a wonderful gift to get somebody. So um, for the holidays. So I’d be interested to see if uh, um that is a tailwind that you’re already seeing, it might even accelerate in the next couple months.
Guest 1: We hope so. Holidays is all about family and coming together and what better way if you’re into pinball and now the whole family can play with you. So, I think it aligns with the the goals of the holidays for sure.
Mindy: Oh, I love it. My heart is so full with this idea. Congratulations on this amazing business and I know Scott and I are anxious to see the future and and how big it’s going to get. So for our audience, where can people find you? Is there an Instagram? Is there a website? If they want to purchase a controller or just go and support you?
Guest 2: You bet. It’s Inclusive Game Works, and we are on Facebook, Instagram, we have a website.
Mindy: Well everyone go check out Inclusive Game Works. Aaron and Cheryl, thank you so much for coming on the show today. We are thrilled to talk to you.
Guest 2: Thank you for having us.
Guest 1: Thanks so much.
Scott: All right, that was Cheryl and Aaron with Inclusive Game Works. Kaylin, what did you think?
Mindy: Oh my gosh. Well, I already kind of had the inside scoop on this story, so I knew it was going to be really great. But just re-hearing all of it again, learning about how six incredible business owners came together, designed something that’s going to change the industry in a matter of a year is just, it’s so inspiring. I think it it really kind of lights a fire under any any person with an idea. Like, there’s no excuse. Just anyone can do this.
Scott: Yeah, I think I think, you know, hopefully your mind is turning over the things you like to do and thinking about ways to help make them more accessible or more popular or more, um, enjoyable to other folks. Uh, and that can come with a good cause. Maybe maybe you know, I like I crazy ideas are jumping in my head, right? Like, is there an invention that could make bowling more accessible to folks with disabilities, right? Like or whatever it is that you like, I’m not a big bowler, but you know, I was thinking like, oh, there’s there’s probably a way to to do this in all other cases. And what that does is that allows you to enjoy your favorite pastime, make it accessible to more people, probably get grant money if you’re making it accessible um, to folks, and then have a a crack at a potential business that could could just be fun. So I I I think I hopefully I hope people’s um wheels got turning. Um, uh, because this is this is really inspiring.
Mindy: It is and I I think the thing that I think sometimes young business owners maybe get into the mindset of like what’s going to make me the most money fast, but I think what what is really powerful longevity wise in a business is is moving uh in a business with that you’re really passionate about. And you can definitely hear that from Aaron and Cheryl. They just care so much about that and so they built a world around it. And I think that that’s a really inspiring, aspirational, um, principle for anyone on bigger pockets of money to really sit and think about.
Scott: Absolutely.
Mindy: All right, Scott. Before we get out of here, you’re really good at dad jokes, so I I brought you a dad joke because I couldn’t help myself today. Okay. All right. Um, what do pinball and seals have in common?
Scott: Um, they’re both uh they they’re they’re both bounce, double bounce.
Mindy: They both have flippers.
Scott: Awesome. That’s a double bonus joke for a pinball episode here today.
Mindy: Yeah, you always bring the best dad jokes. so like I had to really I had to think about this one ahead of the show to to compete on this outro.
Scott: My pinball jokes today were terrible. So you get the high score. Really appreciate it. Oh. And yeah, thank you for for joining us today.
Mindy: All right. Well, I am Kaylin Hope Bennett. He is Scott Trench, saying…
Scott: Go play pinball. If you enjoyed today’s episode, please give us a five-star review on Spotify or Apple. And if you’re looking for even more money content, feel free to visit our YouTube channel at youtube.com/biggerpocketsmoney. Bigger Pockets Money was created by Mindy Jensen and Scott Trench, produced by Kaylin Bennett, editing by Exodus Media, copywriting by Nate Weintraub. Lastly, a big thank you to the Bigger Pockets team for making this show possible.
