Speaker 1: Welcome to the BiggerPockets Money podcast, Finance Friday Edition, where we interview Chris and talk about F when you own your own business.
Guest: I found out that uh the the real problem there isn’t stinky garbage cans, it’s that old ladies and grandmas don’t want to climb ladders. So, that’s pretty much what we do is ladder related home maintenance for uh grandmas living in these communities where, you know, we do their home maintenance so that they ultimately have the opportunity to maintain their independence in the place that they love the most and graduated college, came back home uh to grow it. We’ve uh as you described, hired employees and kind of doubled every year largely since I’ve came back home. So, that kind of put me on the uh the uh kick started me to into personal development and finding it all about podcast and a real estate and and investing. So, here I am today.
Mindy: Hello, hello, hello. My name is Mindy Jensen and with me as always is my way too corporate for a startup co-host, Scott Trench.
Scott: Thanks, Mindy. Unlike our guest today, I never had to climb the corporate ladder.
Mindy: No, you quit the worst company to work for ever.
Scott: Get it? Cuz he’s got a ladder business? Okay.
Mindy: Oh no, I missed it. Oh, that’s because puns are terrible, Scott.
Scott: Scott and I are here to make financial independence less scary. Less just for somebody else. To introduce you to every money story because we truly believe financial freedom is attainable for everyone, no matter when or where you’re starting.
Scott: That’s right. Whether you want to retire early and travel the world, go on to make big time investments in assets like real estate or start your own ladder business, Mindy. We’ll help you reach your financial goals and get money out of the way so you can launch yourself towards those dreams.
Mindy: Scott, I apologize for missing your amazing pun. You’re so great at these amazing puns. Uh, I am excited to talk to Chris today. He has started a really cool business right out of high school. I think that he shows an enormous amount of initiative and he went to he continued to go to school while running the successful business. And now is looking towards his financial future to determine when he’s done running this business, what he wants to do. He wants to set himself up for financial freedom, but he’s not that interested in the early retirement part of financial of fire, which I think is great because I don’t think you should focus on the the retire early part. I think you should focus on getting enjoyment out of your life. But I did enjoy talking to him. Scott.
Scott: Yeah, I thought it was really interesting. I think that um, look, Chris has a services business and a challenge in the services business for somebody who starts off as a self-employed entrepreneur just themselves, which is what Chris started as is that when you begin to expand, you inevitably erode your profits, right? Because if I’m billing out, if if I do a a service for $100 an hour and then all of a sudden I hire somebody for $20 an hour to do that same service, unless I’m getting more hours in, I’m eroding my margin. I’m losing at least 20 of those dollars. And so that’s the the challenge that Chris is facing right now. And I think it’s just a really good framework and lesson and thought to to think through. If if you have a services-based business and you want to expand it, you have to take this period of of sacrifice and there has to be a clear path to making more than you were in the first place because running a services business is much harder than being an individual service provider.
Mindy: It is. I think we gave him a lot of things to think about and I think he has a lot, I think he has a good business head on his shoulders and now it’s just balancing the very different goals of growing your business and showing a lot of income to qualify for a new house purchase.
Scott: Absolutely. Well, should we bring him in?
Mindy: Well, we can’t yet, Scott because we have to satisfy our attorneys. They make me say the contents of this podcast are informational in nature and are not legal or tax advice and neither Scott nor I nor Bigger Pockets is engaged in the provision of legal tax or any other advice. You should seek your own advice from professional advisors including lawyers and accountants regarding the legal tax and financial implications of any financial decision you contemplate.
Scott: All right. Before we bring in Chris, let’s take a quick break.
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Mindy: And we’re back. Chris is a 26-year-old entrepreneur who started his business right out of high school as a way to graduate from college debt free. Who knew it would turn into such a successful actual company that employs eight people providing handy man and home services throughout the year. Now, he’d like to think about his retirement plans so he’s financially ready when he’s actually ready to give up his handy Manning. Chris, welcome to the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. I’m so excited to talk to you today.
Guest: Yeah, thanks so much for the opportunity. Mindy and Scott.
Mindy: Before we jump into your conversation, let’s look at your money snapshot. I see self-employment income that varies, of course, because it’s self-employment income, but $75,000 approximately for the year with additional income from a house hack of 43.50 per month. We have monthly expenses that total around $2,100. So we’ve got 1,200 for rent or your portion of the house hack, $66 for utilities, 250 for gasoline, 250 for groceries, 50 for restaurants, 50 for household, gym membership is $10, clothing $20, car about 100, gifts 15, mostly for Christmas, entertainment $20 a month, travel about 25 and internet wi-fi $85. Those seem good. I just want to caution you that those are your actual expenses, but I they seem like they are you seem to have a good handle on them. Your invest your, I’m sorry, your debts, let’s look at your debts. Oh, nothing but the mortgage. Yay. That’s a great position to be in at 26 years old. And investments, you don’t have a 401k. You can bet I’m going to talk about that later. You do have a Roth I RA with approximately $44,000 in it. Yay at 26. That’s awesome. A SEP I RA with an additional 39. That’s also awesome. Personal brokerage of 106, which makes me eat my words about that 401k, but we’re still going to talk about it anyway. So 106 in a personal brokerage, that’s fantastic. $1,500 in cash reserves. I would normally want to have a conversation about this, but you do have a business where you can uh take business draws if you need to. So I’m not going to harp on that too much. Um, so Chris, I would like to know your biggest money pain point, your goals and a brief history of your money story.
Guest: Yeah, so I think really my money story started out of high school. I didn’t have the grade just choices for college. Uh, kind of fortunately in hindsight, really the best decision I ever made was go into community college. It wasn’t where I wanted to be, but it helped me work get to where I wanted to go, which was ultimately transferring to UC Santa Barbara. That was my dream school. And uh, I was a caretaker and a paper boy at the time, kind of when you um kind of alluded to at the pre of this from high school to uh to community college. And I needed more money and I was working as a caregiver uh for a grandma and I got that job from a friend who went door-to-door cleaning garbage cans. So at that time, I was trending towards almost graduating and transferring uh to UC Santa Barbara and I realized, okay, I need to make more money than I can make as a paper boy or a caregiver. I thought back to my friend and I said, well, I’m above nothing. I’m going to go clean garbage cans. So I started doing that in a local retirement community. It’s what’s called a 55 plus active living retirement community. I found out that uh the the real problem there isn’t stinky garbage cans, it’s that old ladies and grandmas don’t want to climb ladders. So that’s pretty much what we do is ladder related home maintenance for uh grandmas living in these communities where, you know, we do their home maintenance so that they ultimately have the opportunity to maintain their independence in the place that they love the most. And graduated college, came back home uh to grow it. We’ve hired employees and kind of doubled every year largely since I’ve came back home. So that kind of put me on the uh the um kick started me to into personal development and finding it all about podcast and and real estate and and investing. So here I am today.
Scott: What’s the revenue and profit from this business and how much do you take in salary?
Guest: Yeah, so kind of interesting. Historically, it’s been structured as a sole proprietorship. So I think my net income last year was um was really good because I was the epitome of being self-employed. I was doing almost all the work, our payroll was very little. Uh so last year I made about 103 in net income. This year, effectively, we’ve grown a bit, but our expenses are outpacing our growth. So I’m going to take home a little bit less this year, probably closer to 54, 55, something like that. Um but top line, last year we did 164 and we grew a little bit this year.
Scott: And you did not take a salary then, it’s all distributions?
Guest: Currently, right now, I do not take a salary. I just take distributions, exactly right. I think over time, uh we’re going to be implementing a different business structure and uh I’m going to have to pay myself a reasonable salary, uh but I’ll let my CPA choose that.
Scott: Awesome. And can you walk through the employees? So, these are not full-time employees. They sound like hourly contracted guys.
Guest: Yep. So we have several really part-time uh employees. Most of our staff are current college students. Uh we have one full-time operations uh manager, so he’s he’s on a salary, uh I think there’s one other full-time person, one close to being full-time, but you’re right, about five or so are are pretty part-time.
Scott: Awesome. And then can you walk us through anything about seasonality in the business?
Guest: Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, we we do four core services, gutter cleaning, window cleaning, solar panel cleaning and Christmas lights. So we do really, really well during this time of the year, November and December. Uh we do a lot of gutter cleaning and Christmas lights. You know, grandmas uh have a high willingness to pay for those services during that time of the year. And uh during spring and summer it’s more about window cleaning. But it is it is a clearly seasonal business. We have a couple lows, uh kind of shoulder seasons between those two.
Scott: Awesome. What do you, what do you bill at and what do you pay your staff?
Guest: Yeah, so I know the operations manager, he is uh he’s salaried exempt in the state of California, so he makes two times a minimum minimum wage. Uh the other staff, they’re all being paid uh living wage. It just depends on the role, but somewhere typically around $20 blended uh across all forms of compensation.
Scott: Well, you’re paying these guys 20 bucks an hour on an hourly basis. I presume you’re billing the client more than $20, otherwise you wouldn’t be in business. So I’m just wondering how much that spread is.
Guest: Absolutely. Yeah, we don’t typically really bill by the hour in that case, we bill by the project. Uh typically our revenue per man hour is north of $100. It really depends on the service, but about that.
Scott: Awesome. So you’ve got a, you got a, you got a um profitable unit economics, very profitable on a services-based business here and the challenge is filling up as many man hours as possible on that. Um, so Chris, what what’s driven growth over the last couple of years and what are the plans going forward for your business?
Guest: Yeah, so I’d say what’s driven growth is obviously the first several years it was me doing the work. You know, I uh maybe played the role of like the ideal grandkid where I was actually there to help them. So, we had a a lot of great referrals and word of mouth in these communities. I mean, they gossip like teenage girls. Uh these communities are largely, you know, 65 to 85 year old retirees and and uh they oftentimes socialize and talk to their neighbors and friends. So, I’d say that’s what allowed me to initially succeed and uh ultimately we use those um other forms of print media as I already explained to kind of expand out to uh the other 55 plus communities in the area. There’s about 20 of them and we’ve we’ve so far serviced about half of them.
Scott: Awesome.
Mindy: Yeah, I was telling Scott before we started the show, I’m so excited about this idea because I live in a neighborhood where there’s probably 30 or 40% of the people who live here are still original homeowners from the seventies. So they’re in their seventies and eighties and nineties and this would be an ideal neighborhood for you to come in, you know, if you lived here. Uh but it’s I mean how much did it cost you to start this business? It was probably very low startup. You need a ladder, right? That’s not that expensive.
Guest: Exactly right. Yeah, initially it really just started I got a pressure washer to clean garbage cans. And then over time, I found out, oh, like they need this thing done and that thing done and I mean it’s very asset light, you know, it’s equipment light. So it was really a business pretty well positioned for an 18 year old to get into. Um, that also makes it a very competitive space that there’s a low barrier to entry. Um, but absolutely, it cost very little to get into this business. I literally think it was a $200 pressure washer that I just put into into the back of my car and started going door-to-door.
Mindy: And you use their water, right, their electricity?
Guest: Exactly. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. So there was really no cogs, you know, to put a business word to it besides the obvious the cost of service as we were kind of talking about.
Mindy: Have you thought of franchising this idea?
Guest: Absolutely. Yeah, I uh initially pursued the idea of franchising the last couple years. Um early in COVID, I called um I’d say played the role of a college student doing a marketing project or a class project for an entrepreneurship class and talk to a bunch of franchise in in this space. So that kind of gave me good insight as to maybe uh the expectation of the size of a franchise to really justify going that route. I don’t think there’s enough territories for the markets that we uh really target with this type of business. Ultimately, the most opportunity are in places like Florida or Arizona where they have a really high density of these types of communities. So, ultimately, long-term three, five years our plan is to expand out to those other places, uh Florida and Arizona uh to offer the same services because if we can target and convert, you know, a 75 year old lady that lives in a Sacramento area 55 plus community, you know, we can do the same in Florida and Arizona and really go the corporate out ultimately.
Scott: How how many total billable hours did you bill last year?
Guest: I could look up our KPIs. We probably did about 500 appointments. Each appointment is going to last somewhere between two to four hours. So I’d probably say how many billable hours? If we’re doing we did about 164 last year in revenue, uh we do about 100 or so plus or minus per man hour. So, what would that be? You know, 1500 something like that.
Scott: So, here here’s a question, just to be frank, um with you and you know, well, a statement and a question. This this business has to scale for you to continue operating the way that you’re operating because uh the the work year is 2,000 hours. So that that simple math says you could just do all of those hours yourself. You don’t need any employees and you would have made $164,000 last year instead of instead of 54,000, right? And so that that I think is is just something to noodle on conceptually and say like, is there a path to getting this thing there because, you know, you didn’t, on paper at least, you don’t need any of those employees and the time is there, you have another 500 hours on top of that as bonus to actually schedule and coordinate and market and all that kind of stuff, um to get that to get that time. So, what what’s your reaction to that that observation?
Guest: Yeah. I I would argue that half of our staff, four of the employees are really part-time and they’re what I what I call a canvaser. So they’re really stirring up leads and marketing for us, distributing the door hangers, the bait at sides. So I kind of need them to get some proportion of the leads that we already generate. Uh and this year was a big step in my business because, you know, cuz I recognized exactly what you’re talking about. This type of business is really profitable when you do it all yourself, but also happens, you get burned out. That’s what happened last year with me. I was overworked, I was working way too much, you know, spending too little time with friends and family. Um and this is kind of the messy middle in terms of the size of this business. We need to get to 750 a million uh to really uh get back to the level of profitability that we were prior where I can take as much home as as I was when I was doing all the work on the on the ladder. Um but I think it’s kind of a natural progression with this type of business is the cost structure changes as you start to hire employees. We need to continue to grow to justify that, you know, change in that cost structure instead of just reverting back to what I had done the first six or so years and doing it all myself.
Scott: Okay. I I think do you how long will it take you to get to that point 750 to a million where this business brings in more than if you just did it yourself?
Guest: Sure. So I think, you know, there are, I’m confident, there are five or so businesses in the Sacramento area that do the same exact services of us that do a million dollars plus. So I know it’s a possibility. Um and and so much so that there’s franchises in the space. So that that really is what validates the opportunity. So I think realistically to get to the size that I had stated, you know, 750 a million, that’s going to take us locally here probably three, five more years. Um it’s tough to continue the pace of doubling what we’ve done historically, but I think we could get to 360, 400 this coming year. And if we have two or so years of slower growth, you know, we can get to that 750 or so mark.
Scott: Okay. I I think that’s too vague, would be my my my my reservation. I I believe you. This is a good business model. You’re clearly solving a problem, your customers clearly like you, you’re getting word of mouth referrals, things are good, right? You you’ve got something here. But but I think this is a major problem we’ve uncovered in your personal financial situation, which is the purpose of what we’re trying to do here, where you could be making way more money by just going back to what you were doing two years ago. And your your outcome is five years away and we’re we’re way too vague about how we’re going to move forward in the near term. I think, I think that some suggestions I’d have for you are, let let’s let’s boil this down to a process perspective. I I like the approach. you know, in a general sense, like you don’t want to just be, you know, getting on a ladder and dealing with, you know, all all these maintenance issues and hanging up Christmas lights for the next five years. We don’t want to do that. But that the the the business side of it has to make sense in order to justify spending the next three years building a business, which is maybe even harder than that. Um so let’s let’s boil this down to a process. Like like I think I think you should document, what are what are the steps to getting a lead in my business? Right? Um we have door knock دور door hangers, we have word of mouth, we have all of this. Do I have a system to track all of that and understand the ROI? What if I’m paying these guys to hang door knockers and that was a complete sinkhole for me. I got one deal out of it last year and I spent 20 grand. I you do you know that in your business?
Guest: Yeah, I mean, absolutely. You bring up a valid point. And I think one thing, one challenge historically is we’re very print marketing based because demographically we serve, you know, 75 old ladies and what did they respond best to? you could argue, you know, physical print media instead of, you know, a Facebook ad. Um I think the digital media um you know, strategies that we’ve yet to really undertake are are what are probably easiest to grasp um like cost of of customer acquisition ultimately is what you’re getting at. Um, we’ve done a poor job of tracking that historically. We are using a CRM. I have an office manager. She is asking that uh on every call that she receives is ultimately where did you find out about us so that we can do an analysis on, okay, what are the most cost-effective marketing channels so we can pull the right levers.
Scott: Great. And then and then what’s the process once you do get a lead? How many of them convert into appointments or what’s your process for setting an appointment, quoting the job if you have that, um completing the job and then getting feedback.
Guest: So, I’d say historically our our close rate was about 40% blended over all of our services. Uh this year it’s gone down a bit as our prices have changed because the cost structure has gone um you know, has has dramatically changed with the business as as I described. So how it currently works is uh, you know, most commonly we get 75% or so of our calls from these 55 plus communities. Typically they see us from some sort of print media, a door hanger, a sign, you know, they see us at an in-person event perhaps, but some community-centric form of advertising. You know, they see our number, they call our office manager. She they say, you know, I need gutter cleaning, how much do you charge? She gets a few questions asked, uh she prepares a quote that same day, very likely in the next uh, you know, the hour or so after they had call, call called. We send that quote uh via the CRM that we recently um uh paid for and and utilize. And uh from there they receive the quote, receive follow-ups, etc. And once it’s approved, we contact them to to book the service. So that’s kind of the the customer journey um from prospect to, you know, to book a book to appointment.
Scott: Okay. So is this all automated? Are you a part of any of that?
Guest: Yeah, and as you explained, I mean this year has been a dramatic change of me stepping operations and not doing all the cleaning, all the hanging Christmas lights, etc and same with answering phones. You know, historically I was answering every phone call until I hired my office manager and uh the these maybe overhead costs are to explain some of the change in profitability. Um but I am would much rather be at, you know, where I’m at right now and make less money and not be burdened with doing everything in my business, then reverting back to where you know, I was.
Mindy: Okay, so I have a couple of customer acquisition ideas for you. You said that there’s what, like 20, 55 plus communities and you’re in about half of them.
Guest: Correct.
Mindy: So, have you considered having an age-appropriate brand ambassador in each one of these neighborhoods? You go and you clean Gladys’s garbage cans for free. and she’s so delighted that you did this that she tells all of her friends. and then all of a sudden, you’re in that neighborhood now too. Um are there services that your clients are asking for that you don’t currently offer? Or have you pulled your clients to see if there’s anything else that you can help with? Because you already have a client. Getting that client to spend more money with you is going to be easier than finding a whole brand new client. You already have them, they already appreciate your services. Ask if there’s anything else that they would like around the house. Maybe you can help like move heavy stuff or, you know, rearrange furniture or get rid of stuff or, you know, something like that. Um and have you ever done a uh like a we’re going to be in your neighborhood. We’re going to bring eight guys into your neighborhood this Saturday and and we’ll take, you know, we’ll clean anybody’s garbage cans for 10 bucks or 100 bucks or I don’t know how much it costs to clean a garbage can. but like some ideas where you’re already there, how much time does it take to clean yet another can? Um and that could be another way to introduce your services to people. Obviously, you can’t hang up Christmas lights in a 5,000 house community in one weekend, but you know, introducing people especially on some of those slower weekends.
Guest: Yeah, absolutely. I mean I particularly love the idea of the brand ambassador. I haven’t thought about that particular phrasing. Uh we definitely do get great referrals in these communities. We could probably do a better job ofzing uh and like asking for the referral. So that’s that’s super valid and ultimately lots of the people in these communities, they’re widows, they’re widower, they’re vulnerable. They really rely on people that they can trust and they most trust who they’re referred to. So I think that’s a very valid point. Other services, you know, we’ve definitely thought about adding on different types of services. Um, I think one of the reasons we’ve really niche down on what we do is because they’re the things around the house that are the most physically demanding that we most frequently get asked about. So, we do some small things like moving or yard work or, you know, changing a smoke alarm battery, air filter, you know, name your other task that, you know, an 80-year- old woman might struggle with. Um, but I also don’t want to get too uh spread out and like um going an inch wide and a mile deep or a, you know, an an inch, an inch deep and a mile wide. I want to do the opposite of that. So, in terms of other services, I think one hesitation is that it’s just operationally complex. This is already a very operationally intensive type business. I’m confident we could do what we currently do great, um but lesser so if we continue to expand our our set of services.
Mindy: Sure, sure, and that is a uh that’s a great point. Um but if you ask all of your customers, hey, is there anything else you would, you know, want us to do or our having trouble finding somebody to do? And everybody asks for the same service. That shows you that there’s a demand. So, I love pulling customers and asking, you know, what are you looking for? If everybody wants 19 different things, well then, oh, okay, well look into that. But if everybody wants the exact same thing, that is, you know, that’s something really valid. Now, you just mentioned something I think is very interesting, changing out smoke detector batteries. Those are always way up on the ceiling and they’re very difficult. Um and lights too. I mean, if these, I don’t know if these neighborhoods have big high ceilings. I think they’re more like manufactured homes, aren’t they? Some of them?
Guest: Yeah, manufactured isn’t right. I mean, they’re they’re stick built single family residences, um but it’s a normal suburb, just full of elderly folks largely. Um but absolutely, I mean, we have done all these little things around the home. They’re not revenue drivers for the business. What’s really most profitable are the four main things that we do, you know, the gutter cleaning, the Christmas lights, the window cleaning, the solar panel cleaning.
Mindy: Ah, okay. So, these non-revenue drivers are super, super helpful for these little old ladies who can’t get up on the ladder themselves. So you go in on a Saturday, we’ve got eight guys for 20 bucks, we’ll come in and we’ll get all the cobwebs and change your batteries and change your lights and do all this stuff for 50 or whatever. And then you go and you bang out all these houses and they’re so pleased that you were there, they call you back to do their gutters and to do there. Hey, by the way, we offer all these services too. if you ever need anything, please give us a call. It’s not a revenue driver, it’s a a lead gen. But anyway, just something to think about. And another thing is like with the referrals, like you said, give 10 you can get 10% off of your service and 10% for me if you use my name. Just tell them that Gladys Smith sent you.
Scott: Well, is there anything else you’d like us to cover from the business perspective?
Guest: I think one one topic that I was thinking about is obviously insurance and as it as it relates is I could start to offer that as a benefit over time. Um I think the the thing that you’re probably going to point out is we need to continue to grow to really justify doing that, but that’s something that I’ve entertained, uh but I think we pretty well covered the business front.
Scott: Yeah, I agree. I don’t think you’re ready to offer health insurance as a benefit to your employees yet.
Mindy: Yeah, that’s really expensive.
Guest: But would love to do it over time.
Scott: Yeah, you could join a PEO if you need to, um, for you and your one full-time employee. Yeah.
Scott: So I think from a bird-I view from my standpoint, um, you you just got this place, it seems like it’s going reasonably well. Um, you you you’re you need to set yourself to start thinking about the next property purchase, but I think it boils down to make sure that you file your taxes, um, the earlier you know, probably the earlier the better with that. Um, you think through if there’s any ramifications, if you do have any options in that, they probably you probably don’t, but if you do have any options, you want to report, um, in such a way that your lender will be aligned with that. And then you want to ask like, okay, well, does that rental income, if it doesn’t count from roommates for my next loan? Does it count the day after I move out of the property? towards my my GDI? Or what? And and I and I really, I think that at this point, I wouldn’t fiddle too much with the structure you’ve got with your with your friend. That that’s done. Um the property is purchased and you’re going to have to transact the property in order to change things that that has all the due on sale ramifications potentially, um and would would potentially give either one of you trouble if you couldn’t qualify for the mortgage on an individual basis.
Guest: Yeah, I absolutely agree. I mean it’s a last resort. Um but it is, it is a resort if needed.
Scott: or just don’t repeat the problem with the next property.
Guest: I would agree.
Scott: So I I think from a bird’s eye view from my standpoint, um you you you just got this place, it seems like it’s going reasonably well. Um you you you you’re you need to set yourself to start thinking about the next property purchase, but I think it boils down to make sure that you file your taxes, um the earlier you know, probably the earlier the better with that. Um you think through if there’s any ramifications, if you do have any options in that, they’re probably you probably don’t, but if you do have any options, you want to report um in such a way that your lender will be aligned with that. And then you want to ask like, okay, well does that rental income, if it doesn’t count from roommates for my next loan, Does it count the day after I move out of the property towards my my DTI or what? And and I I really think that at this point, I wouldn’t fiddle too much with the structure you’ve got with your with your friend. That that’s done. Um the property is purchased and you’re going to have to transact the property in order to change things. That that has all the do on sale rami ramifications potentially um and would would potentially give either one of you trouble if you couldn’t qualify for the mortgage on an individual basis.
Guest: Yeah, I absolutely agree. I mean, it’s a last resort, um but it is, it is a resort if needed.
Scott: or just don’t repeat the problem with the next property.
Guest: I would agree.
Scott: Well, Chris, this has been great. Thank you very much for coming on the BP Money show. Um we really enjoyed talking to you and hopefully this was helpful.
Guest: Yeah. Thank you guys for the opportunity and and I know it’s helpful for me. Hopefully it’s applicable to someone else out there too.
Scott: Absolutely. I think a lot of people will learn from this.
Mindy: Yeah, Chris, this was a lot of fun. I’m super excited for your uh old lady ladder job. I think that’s a really great opportunity and a really great service that you’re providing because like you said, um older women and ladders don’t don’t uh mix.
Guest: Yeah, not a great combo.
Mindy: Not a great combo. Okay, well this has been a lot of fun and we really appreciate your time. We’ll talk to you soon.
Scott: All right, Scott, that was Chris. I thought you had some good advice for him for his business. I am excited to see the possibilities for his business and I do think that he will be able to grow it. I think he’s got uh like I said at the beginning, I think he’s got a really great business head on his shoulders and now he’s just in that weird little, I want to grow, I’m not quite sure how to grow or let me try a few different things period of service-based growth that, you know, you have to get through before you find what works and grow from there.
Scott: Yeah, I I love that he’s experimenting with it. I think that uh the plan for achieving that growth needs to be more aggressive and more specific. And I think that’s that’s a that’s the big homework I’d have um if I’m Chris. And and uh, Mindy, I thought you had some really good advice as well and some great tips.
Mindy: Oh, I thank you Scott. I try. I think that, you know, I think there’s a lot of value in a brand ambassador who is the same age or similar age as other people that he’s trying to target and they all speak the same language. He can give her free garbage can cleaning or whatever and then connect with her. She’ll connect with other people, just having somebody that you trust like he said, that’s going to pay off in spades.
Scott: Absolutely. Well, should we get out of here?
Mindy: We should, Scott. That wraps up this episode of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. He is Scott Trench and I am Mindy Jensen saying Park your truck, rubber duck.
Scott: If you enjoyed today’s episode, please give us a five star review on Spotify or Apple. And if you’re looking for even more money content, feel free to visit our YouTube channel at youtube.com/biggerpocketsmoney.
Mindy: Bigger Pockets Money was created by Mindy Jensen and Scott Trench, produced by Calen Bennett, editing by Exodus Media, copywriting by Nate Winetrub. Lastly, a big thank you to the Bigger Pockets team for making this show possible.
