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Scott: Today, we’re talking to Tiffany Aliche, who is the go-to resource for becoming financially whole. We’re not going to just talk about her framework for becoming financially whole. We’re going to talk about her rags to riche story. And we’re going to hear an insane update from her appearance on episode eight of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast nearly 10 years ago. And we’re going to hear about her journey from that point to building a business worth tens of millions of dollars and a net worth of $10 million or more here today at age 47.
Mindy: Hello, hello, hello and welcome to the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. My name is Mindy Jensen and with me as always is my businessman co-host, Scott Tretch.
Scott: Thanks, Mindy. Great to be here. Today I am super excited to talk to not just a businesswoman, but a business woman. Remember that Jay-Z quote there, businessman. Uh, today we’re talking with Tiffany Aliche, known to millions as the Budget Nista about her concept of financial wholeness and why her book get good with money is more relevant right now than the day it was written. Today is the re-release of her book in softcover, today March 31st. So you can get it wherever you buy books. And after we talk about that, we’re going to get into the explosion of wealth that has happened to her in the 10 years since we talked to her last year on Bigger Pockets Money. What an incredible success story. Tiffany, thank you so much for joining us.
Guest: Thank you for having me. I’m excited to be back.
Mindy: I am always happy to have Tiffany back on the show. She has such a great story. Tiffany, for anybody who has not listened to episode eight of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast, can you give us an overview of your financial journey?
Guest: Certainly. So, I grew up learning about personal finance at home. My father is a CFO, um, and an accountant, my mom a nurse. And so I always say that my dad was like the academic educator on money in the household. Like, this is how you budget, this is how you save. Um, we’re going to open up a a bank account for you when you’re 16. We’ll we’ll walk to the bank together. And my mom was more application, because I’m one of five girls. It was like, when we go to the supermarket, this is how I decide how much to buy. Here’s how I negotiate when it’s time for you guys to get your hair done. And here’s how I make sure that when I’m purchasing things, your dad doesn’t get mad about me over spending because I first I show him how much it really cost, how much it cost and then I show him the sales price later, so that way he’s super excited. Growing up in a household where I learned about money all the time, I assumed everyone kind of had that education. They did not and I really learned that lesson in college when my college roommate, we’ll call her Maria because we’re still cool. Um she had debt collectors calling the dorm room. And we thought it was funny because you’re 17, 18. Um, when I told my dad, he did not think it was funny. Um, he told me exactly what to say that she should say. and there I had this aha moment of, oh. There are those people who understand how to navigate money in a way that can help you, you know, and I’m like I want to be one of those people. And so, the budget Nista was kind of born. I I became a school teacher for 10 years and I practiced on the parents that came. I was in my 20s and so were they. And when my my kids were in preschool, so they were three and four, they took naps and during nap time, I had parent University where I would teach the parents how to save, how to do their taxes, you know, how to fix their budgets and I just, you know, I decided this is what I want to do full-time and when the great recession hit and everyone lost their jobs, so did I and I hit the ground running with budgetsta. 16 years later. My business is a teenager and here I am.
Mindy: Your business can drive.
Guest: Well, it has a permit.
Mindy: So, in your book, Get good with money, you have 10 financial pillars. Which one do you think is the most important?
Guest: I would say the most important is actually like a pre-pillar if you will. The mindset component. So before I get you into the 10 components, I talk about the mindset shift because honestly Mindy and Scott, like your money will only do as well as your mindset will allow. I’m bad at budgeting. I can’t save. My credit’s always terrible. or whatever that story is that you’ve created. and so I start the book out with trying to like reset that mindset so the things you’re going to learn will actually stick.
Scott: What are the beliefs that are very healthy in your in your view? Like what are signs that someone is saying the right things to themselves or has the right identity that’s congruent with building wealth?
Guest: Well, one, they move from a place of they realized that even if they don’t know, um, how to do something, they realize, oh, this is a confidence issue, not a competence issue. Does that make sense Scott? Like when I hear people say like, oh, you know, the reason why I wasn’t saving and a high yield savings account is because, oh, I didn’t even know they existed. versus I don’t know how to save, I’m not good at saving. I’ve never been good at saving. And so when I see people lean into I just had a lack of knowledge, not a lack of ability, then I know they’re in a healthy financial state because knowledge can always be gained and truthfully, that typically is the issues is that you’re not incompetent, it’s just that maybe you just didn’t have the confidence and the knowledge. So when I hear that, then I know that they’re working toward their finances in a healthy way.
Mindy: Where do you start when somebody comes in with a mess, a financial mess and is not financially whole? How does one begin attacking the problem or even even framing it?
Guest: I don’t jump in right away with like budgeting and and and credit and things like that. It’s almost like I start with the story. People have a financial story and I want to get it out of them. so I can see what actually is happening. So like right for example, Mindy, somebody might come to me and say, oh, I’ve got an issue with um my credit, my credit, my credit. And I’m like, the teacher in me is like, m, that actually might not be the issue. Tell me your story because I might find out, actually your issue is saving or actually your issue is debt, not credit. Um, and so I like to I usually tell people my financial fiasco story how I was a victim of credit card scan. I was see $35,000 in debt. I lost my job around that same time that I had just bought a condo for 220, so now I had a mortgage payment I couldn’t afford credit cards and I just graduated with my masters $50,000 in in student loan debt. So I was like nearly $300,000 in debt with no job and I didn’t know what to do. So I like to share that because it prompts people to tell me their story, so I can really get to the meat and potatoes of which of the 10 financial wholeness steps do we really actually need to focus on first and foremost. and so we start with the story.
Mindy: Okay, we’ve said the phrase financial wholeness a couple of times. What does this mean to you?
Guest: So, I claim the phrase. I’m like is a trademark? I think so. So financial wholeness is different than financial independence. um, in that, um, financial wholeness doesn’t mean you have to have a pile of money to be financially okay. It is when these 10 components which I’ll share in a minute work together for your greatest good. It means that if you master these 10 components at wherever you are right now, then you are going to be fine at least financially, right? That means you’re going to be able to pay your bills and you’re going to feel a sense of safety at least financially and so those 10 components are budgeting, saving, debt, credit, earning, learning to earn or your income, that’s the foundational five. Then we have investing for both retirement and wealth. There’s insurance, there is your financial team, your net worth and a state planning. That’s the next five. For example, estate planning for 20-year-old Scott might just look like, you know, I put my mom or my dad whatever as my beneficiary on my bank account. Right? But a state planning for like 46-year-old Tiffany now looks like I have a trust and I have a will. And so what I love about financial wholeness is that it meets you where you are. So you can do all of these 10 things, but based upon where you currently are. So if you can master those things then you’re going to be okay financially.
Mindy: You said something interesting. You said investing for retirement and investing for wealth building. I’ve never heard anybody separate those two and of courseAttachments
like once you hear something you’re like, oh, of course that’s a no-brainer. Why do you distinctively separate those?
Guest: Because words are so important. People say I’m saving for retirement, yes and, because if you’re just saving for retirement, you’re likely not going to have enough. Like it has to intentionally grow. So even though it’s one step investing. I like to say the two because I want you to know that investing for retirement means, Mindy, you get to look around your life and say, hey, when I retire, I’ll be able to maintain basically the same life I live now. But investing for wealth means I get to look around and say, I get to leave a financial legacy. I get to actually increase my um the way I get to live now. and so you have to intentionally invest for wealth if you so want, but everyone should invest for retirement so they can maintain a healthy lifestyle for themselves when they get older.
Scott: What do you feel about when you say investing for wealth and legacy, the this movement that’s cropped up around the die with zero trend? What would be your reaction or advice to somebody who wants to die with zero?
Guest: What I like about the the trend from what I understand, I have not read the book although I haven’t is that you kind of realize that there is lifespan, but there’s also health span and fully understanding like, how do I use my money to enjoy while I’m still here and able to like enjoy it? And so that is the the premise of financial wholeness too, which is that your money is a tool for like you. You know, like you are not supposed to be a slave to your money. that your money is a tool for you. Your my dad would say Scott that money is like a hammer. You can use a hammer to build your life, but that same hammer could be used to destroy your life too or to destroy a house too, right? And so you get to decide because you hold the hammer. Are you going to build your financial house or destroy your financial house? And so I’m not mad at Die with Zero because what it means is it means about living intentionally now while you’re here because now it’s all we really have.
Scott: I completely agree. I just I will say that as we get deeper and deeper into the world of personal finance, you say, okay, the healthy thing about Die with Zero is it takes somebody who has plenty of wealth and needs to loosen up and spend it and helps them get over that hump. An unhealthy view with Die with Zero is a literal interpretation that an optimal path is to grind and bust it out to get to retire at 40 with two and a half million dollars, and then exactly spend it to 4% rule and truly dwindle the portfolio and spend it down to zero the day you die. That’s a pursuit of optimization that actually limits your options because you got to be so prescriptive the entire way through and build in the tax advantage accounts all the way up there and then with the sequencing of withdrawals and keeping your lifestyle static. There’s no volatility wiggle room and all that. That’s where that’s where I that’s where I get it’s taken too far to the point where it’s like that’s a that ends up being a terrible plan even though it looks great on paper relative to other other other alternatives. So,
Mindy: One thing I like about Die with Zero is it starts making those of us who have been historically tight fisted start thinking about things in a different way. Does he say in the book buying his kid a house or somebody read the book and was inspired to buy their kid a house. I’ve got two kids. They’re 16 and 19. And right now houses are really, really expensive. They’re not going to get any cheaper. And if they do, we’ve got really big problems. 2008 was a fluke, house prices almost never go down. I’m not going to say they never will again. I would love it if house prices went down, not until I sell my house, but I would love it if house prices would go down, but that’s not realistic. So, here I am, financially independent with enough money that I could help my kids buy a house. Not now, but you know, when they’re 25 and they’re just starting in their career, I can take this huge burden off of their shoulders. Here you go, here’s a place to live. So opening up your mind to things that like I would never consider buying my kid a house. Why would I buy my kid a house? Oh, because I can help them in the now. So that’s what I liked about the Die with Zero book.
Guest: I have a 19-year-old as well, my stepdaughter. I just bought a condo for her because it was so cheap. I couldn’t believe it. Like my neighbor upstairs was like, uh, my mom is in her 90s, she owns a bunch of properties and she really kind of wants to offload. He had been telling me about it for a couple years. And then he was like, I don’t know what happened personally, but he was like, just come upstairs and take a look. And he’s like, what did I tell you Tiffany? I told I’d sell it to you for 200, I was like, I think he had told me 250, which was still a steal because it’s two bed, two bath in New Jersey and New York is one of the fastest growing markets in the country. And I was like, uh, I don’t know as he, so he was like, I’ll tell you what I told my family member who didn’t want to buy. I’ll I’ll tell you 175. I said, I was joking. I said, 150 you have a deal. And he was like, okay. I was So I wasn’t expecting to purchase a condo that week, but I did because I thought to myself when my 19-year-old gets older, boom, she can start, you know, not from scratch. But you have to be prepared. This is what I love about financial wholeness at the age I am now and where I am financially in my career is that I had to be financially prepared. Financial wholeness got me prepared to make a decision like that, you know, to be able to move when that because one, I had the credit if I was going to uh do credit. I had investments that I could liquidate if I was going to pay cash. so I was prepared to make that decision and I didn’t get to miss out. I could sell it as is right now for probably $100,000 more than what I purchased it for.
Mindy: And you could also sell it to your stepdaughter. I think you have to charge 3.93% or something interest, but give her a super low payment. You could do a 40-year mortgage, you could do an 80-year mortgage because you’re the bank. You could do whatever you want as long as you’re charging the right amount and then she’s got skin in the game, but what are you going to do foreclose on her? Probably not. So she learns how to be an adult with a big safety net, which is what financial wholeness to trademark is all about is being able to and, you know, die with zero combined. It’s being able to help people when you want to.
Guest: Yeah.
Scott: Walk us through the difference between investing for wealth and investing for retirement. What what what does that mean specifically to you?
Guest: When I was writing getgo with money, I thought to myself, okay, that everybody wants to be wealthy, but people have not done the like fundamental foundation of taking care of what I call my older self. So I’ve named my older self, her name is Wanda because uh, I think it was potential or something. They did a study that said that people don’t say for retirement or invest for retirement because they feel disconnected to whoever that older self version. and I said, well, why not lead into that disconnection? Wanda, you know, I I imagine Wanda sitting on her front porch, you know, a little sassy, you know, doesn’t like all that noise from the neighborhood kids, but you know, still bake some cookies from time to time. And I think to myself like, what would Wanda need? So investing for retirement for me is making sure that Wanda has a safe place to live, has enough money to purchase um food and medicine. So it is it allows me to have a strong financial foundation. That is what investing for retirement is. It means that like it is a priority no matter what. It supersedes almost all other priorities. I’d rather be late on a bill than not invest for retirement because one day, Wanda is not going to be able to work honestly. So it is my younger self’s job to look after my older self. So if that means that like I have to take a hit now financially or maybe I have to have less now financially to make sure Wanda can afford her medicine and her food and a place to live, so be it. So that is investing for retirement. Separately, investing for wealth is different. After the fundamentals have already been established, you are navigating debt responsibly, if if not debt free. Your credit score is strong. You’ve got a budget in place, ideally it’s automated. You know, you’ve got savings, you’ve got your emergency savings. You are maxing out your retirement, and you start to say like, there is excess here. Um, I want to now put this to work, so actually I could increase how I live currently and also leave a financial legacy if I so choose for the people, my dependents. And so that’s what investing for wealth is. It’s about increasing how I live now and leaving some sort of legacy. I know some people go to wealth right away, but the problem with the with that is to me is that there’s no guarantee, you know, that like so if it doesn’t work, now you don’t’ve not set aside anything for your financial foundation. and so I say you do the foundation first, which is retirement, investing for retirement, and investing for wealth is optional for those who want to optimize their their financial life now.
Scott: How much is enough for Wanda?
Guest: Oof, it’s hard because I told myself how much enough was for Wanda and I’ve reached it. And I’m like, I want more. Not because, I’m not even a big spender. It’s just a fear because of everything that’s happening. I’m like, oh, is this enough? And so for me it was eight figures. Um and I’ve just about reached that like collectively with all my assets. and I’m like, is this really enough in the day and time that we live now? And even though, like I don’t have a mortgage on two of my properties. I I I purchased the other two and I I I actually borrowed from myself. I didn’t borrow the money from my investment account. I borrowed against it. And so my interest is really low. I’m paying myself back essentially at a at a much lower interest rate. But even that that doesn’t it’s like nominal relative to what I make as the budget nista. And but I feel a sense of nervousness where I I’m trying to learn what more is because technically, after these eight figures that I have, that it’s enough, you know, but I’m worried that is it enough for me and the other people that I look for look look after. I look after my parents, I think about my sisters, my nieces, my nephew, I think about Alyssa. And so I feel like maybe $20 million would be enough, but even then I probably get there and be like, no, is it enough? Even though, anybody who knows me, they’re like, Tiffany, I still shop at Marshalls. I don’t even buy any designer bags. I couldn’t tell you what a designer bag look like. It’s not that, I most of my trips that I’m on, I’m on a trip right now, it’s points. You know, so it’s not the spending. I still suffer from what I also call post-traumatic broke syndrome, where I’m just like, I was broke for so long, like broke broke, that I’m scared to go back. and so like I’m trying to, I’m trying to pad the likeliness of me being broke. I’m trying to make sure that it never happens again.
Scott: If you’ve been putting off life insurance, I get it. The old process was miserable. Phone calls with an agent, a nurse coming to your house for a blood draw, then waiting weeks to find out what you’d pay for. That friction is exactly why so many people who should have coverage don’t. Here’s what I believe. Most BP money listeners need term life, and the right move is to build a ladder. A few term policies of different lengths stacked together, so your coverage steps down as your mortgage shrinks and your kids get closer to being financially independent or you get closer to hitting your financial independence number. The thing that makes that practical now is Ethos, a platform that helps you find life insurance all 100% online. Same day coverage, no medical exam. You just answer a few health questions online. Up to $3 million in coverage, some policies as low as $30 a month. So building a two or three-layer ladder that used to take a month of appointments is something you can knock out before your coffee gets cold. Get your free quote at ethos.com/bpmoney. That is eths.com/bpmoney. Application times may vary and rates may vary.
Scott: If you’ve been putting off life insurance, I get it. The old process was miserable. Phone calls with an agent, a nurse coming to your house for a blood draw, then waiting weeks to find out what you’d pay for. That friction is exactly why so many people who should have coverage don’t. Here’s what I believe. Most BP money listeners need term life, and the right move is to build a ladder. A few term policies of different lengths stacked together, so your coverage steps down as your mortgage shrinks and your kids get closer to being financially independent, or you get closer to hitting your financial independence number. The thing that makes that practical now is Ethos, a platform that helps you find life insurance all 100% online. Same-day coverage, no medical exam. You just answer a few health questions online. Up to $3 million in coverage, some policies as low as $30 a month. So building a two or three-layer ladder that used to take a month of appointments is something you can knock out before your coffee gets cold. Get your free quote at ethos.com/bpmoney. That is ethos.com/bpmoney. Application times may vary and rates may vary.
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Mindy: Post-traumatic broke syndrome. I love that. I absolutely know exactly what you’re talking about, and I think that there’s a lot of people who are like, I never put it into those words. Words are important. I never put it into those words, but I absolutely have PTSD. I know, I should write a book about that, but yes. Yes, you should. It’s so you know, you when you lost or at some point, maybe you grew up very poor, or maybe you had money, you lost it. For me, it was during that recession time when I’d lost my house and I lost my job and I was like sleeping on couches and things for and this is me, I was like 29, 30, 31, so I wasn’t like a kid kid, you know, and so I just remember it was a really, really hard the amount of shame that I felt, I mean, the overwhelming debilitating shame that I felt to this day, I recognize that one of the reasons I’m really conservative. I used to buy everything cash. Like I have uh two properties I purchase them both cash even though I look back at it now, I probably would have been better to finance at a lower interest rate and then put that money to work in the market, but I was so afraid of someone coming and taking my house like it happened during the recession. And part of me, I realize has not forgiven 20 something year old Tiffany for the mistakes that I made. And so it was like I don’t trust myself. And so it’s a reason why I’m like, well if I got $20 million it would I would have to make a lot of mistakes to go back broke. So I’m trying to relearn how to be like, if you can trust yourself. You’re not 28 anymore, you made those mistakes, but you’re wiser now. You ask questions, you have tools and resources and and so I still struggle with that despite doing this work for 16 years.
Mindy: Yeah, and as you your relationship with money growing up and I guess that wasn’t growing up, that was your like beginning 20s, right? Your
Guest: Yeah, my 20s. when I stopped listening to my parents. Yes.
Mindy: My daughters, if you’re listening to this, do not stop listening to me. My daughters love you by the way. I went to look for your book and I found it in my daughter’s room. I’m like, this is not where this belongs. But yeah, this is where it belongs. If you want to read this, great. I love this post-traumatic broke disorder phrase because there are so many people who are living in that same space. I I could not possibly do this because I was broke. You know, I need to save. I can’t save for retirement because what happens if the stock market goes down. I can’t start building wealth. I just I have to hoard it in, you know, these oh, I’m I’m in a high-yield savings account so I’m doing great. That’s a good first step, but then if you’ve got more than, you know, six months in there, you need to start playing that into the stock market and in into investments and this is not financial advice, but yeah, you need to write that book, Tiffany. So, with this post-traumatic broke disorder and, you know, I need more, I need more, I need more, what are your thoughts on the 4% rule?
Guest: Um, I think it’s a good base, but one of my uh concerns, one of my worries is that healthcare costs only increase. The 4% rule makes me nervous in that it doesn’t cuz Scott you said something earlier about like but what about if this happens, what about if that happens. What if I get really sick? What if I, you know, like it it doesn’t encompass that life is not predictable. So it’s almost like looking outside and saying it’s warm today, but it’s like I, you know, like it it doesn’t tell you it’s 83 degrees if that makes sense.
Scott: You just shared that you’re worth close to $10 million give or take in a personal net worth. And you have a business that I presume is very successful and generating substantial income on top of that. I think that’s really interesting that you think that the the the goal is $20 million for you. I think that like a lot of the fire community has their, you know, $1 million target because that’s kind of the first tranche, you know, maybe 25% of folks are in that kind of ballpark, another then then there’s another, you know, big group between that 1 and 2 and a half million and about 40% of folks that watch this podcast or listen to this podcast, you know, want something north of two and a half million into that but very few people I think have pegged a number north of $10 million as their kind of like their number there. Can you give us a little bit more detail on why you feel that you need that that that number there? And and also, I want to address that that I think there’s no reason not to pursue that number if you enjoy what you what you’re doing. I think there’s almost like a stigma in some parts of the fire community against that pursuit of that of of more there and I want to hear your your analysis of it and and defend it. I think it’s an important topic.
Guest: It’s largely not for me if that makes sense. So, I’m from a big family. I’m one of five girls and my parents thankfully are still here. and my parents they immigrated from uh Nigeria here before I was born and then became citizens and had me and my sisters. So there is a sense especially in our culture of community. For example, one of the things that we do Scott is that your very first paycheck that you give from your very first job, you give it to the household. So for me, I was like working at the library and maybe my first paycheck was like 50 bucks, but you give it to the household to say like thank you so much for like raising me in such a way that like, you know, I could now provide for myself or whatever. And so that’s the thing. some people do it for every first job or whatever, but for for me, it was like just my first job as a teenager. And so I think for me, when I think of the 20, because I don’t actually think, I don’t even think I need 10. like if you my overhead prior to me purchasing these two properties that I purchased last year that I borrowed essentially against, you know, like myself, prior to that, I didn’t have any debt. So this would be four properties I owned, I own a condo and a house. My car is leased under my business. Um I paid off my student loan debt a long time ago. I pay off my credit card debt every single month. I made the joke that I could go back to teaching preschool and afford my life because there is no real overhead, you know, cuz even the house that I have, my sister lives there, she pays the overhead there. Like I don’t charge extra. It cost me about $1,500 with taxes and insurance and things like that. She pays that monthly to me just so the house I brought it for 180 is now worth nearly $600,000. and I bought the house in 2017. So for me, it’s actually not me because I live under $10,000 a year and that includes travel because like I said, I I get so many points and lots of people will fly me out places and I’ll stay an extra day or two. I think really what I’m what I’m bracing against because I’m the wealthiest in my family is being the support. Like when that time comes, what does that look like? My sister Lisa was getting her masters and my parents took out a second mortgage on their home to help her. And then it just grew and grew and I just remember my mom wanted to retire and it was $120,000 that they owed on this house. And I remember being able to write a single check and pay it for instances like that, like if something happens, I want to be able to say, there’s almost nothing that can happen when it comes to the people that I care about that I cannot help. because there’s nothing that I want. if I’m being honest, no one, everybody has a hard time buying things for me Scott because they’re like there’s nothing, I mean I I like to travel, but I can do that. So there’s nothing that I want that I I don’t want a Lamborghini. you know, I don’t want a yacht, I don’t want a private jet, I don’t want to like I want to go to Sedona when I feel like, but I could do that. you know, I I want to, you know, go to Bali because it’s pretty, but I can do that. So there’s nothing that I want that I can’t do with the money I have. more so, I’m just thinking about like as my family grows and my sisters have kids and things like that that I want to be able to be like, there’s nothing that can happen to us that money can solve that I can’t solve it. Does that make sense?
Scott: Mmm. Another follow-up question here is, we are encountering this phenomena more and more on Bigger Pockets money. I think that um, relative to like other fire communities or financial independence, you know, focused worlds, the people who listen or watch Bigger Pockets Money tend to have more open to entrepreneurship and being a little higher income and eventually get wealthy about a third of our our listeners are millionaires and an increasing percentage are multi- multi-millionaires, like, like three, four, five, $10 million plus. And we’re noticing a phenomena in this bucket of a large amount of wealth being illiquid or pre-tax. And so there’s almost a reluctance to harvest this. So the pile grows and grows and grows, but is is actually quite inaccessible without significant tax penalties from uh repositioning the portfolio. Here’s my question for you. you probably have a lot of money in your 401k or equivalent and you probably have a lot of money not just because you’re a big saver, but because you’re a business owner and there’s a lot of incentive and opportunity to defer substantial amounts of profits into the 401k. And I also art would argue that you are at heavy risk of having the that 401k be taxed very heavily if tax rates go up because that’s you’re going to be you’re going to be in in there. How close am I with some of those assumptions?
Guest: No, you’re right. I mean, I also do backdoor Rawth. Like we do, you know, because I’m just like, I, you know, we have to like offset in that way. I have my essay account, like literally my financial advisor was like, she also advises my business. And so she was like, uh, when it’s time to choose your new plan, let me help you because we need to get for you to get an say for the business. And so that’s another thing that we implemented. I mean, not that I’m not that concerned. I mean I I I definitely have been reaching out to more people with wealth to say how are you offsetting some of your tax burden. just even year- to-year. Like what does that look like? Because, you know, like I I have to write a check, you know, every quarter and it’s not a little bit. I mean, at my peak, this me telling on my business, but at my peak when my business um I remember we hit our peak year was just under $1_ million in a year. Like, you know, like $9,900 something like that literally. I was bringing home, you know, close to $3 million. That’s crazy, you know. Now business is much slower. So like high six figures, but you know, many seven figure years, which is crazy cuz I used to teach preschool making $39,000 a year and making it work and I bought a condo. I don’t even know how. I’m like who is that girl? Like making $39,000 a year, I saved enough to buy a condo, not cash but still. So yeah, so even this is still I’m not going to lie. wealth is still very new to me. I’ve been a millionaire since I was 37. I’m going to be 47 this year. It’s 10 years, but I was a millionaire on paper at 37 and now I’m like, oh, I see the millions in the account. So I haven’t even if I’m being honest, really rectified and remedy. So how do I actually pull that out? Because working as a budgetsta, I still make, you know, multiple six figures. So I haven’t thought about pulling it out because I’m still making so much actively that it’s not a problem that I have like put my mind to to solve yet. although my vice advisor has been like, so what are we going to do? I’m like, well, I don’t plan on not being a budgetsta for like another, I don’t know, 5 to 10 years. I don’t know. So when that time comes, I mean she actively works on it with me like okay, let’s think about, you know, what this should look like.
Scott: I think this is fantastic what you just share. this is this is absolutely amazing here. And and I think I think that most people listening to this are going to be like, what the heck is going on? Why is Tiffany worried about running out of money here? These are unbelievable. These are insane numbers that we’re talking about. But I want to call out that when you go down the first rabbit hole of like financial wholeness, right? And you begin like you cannot see the compounding that is possible, not, you know, in a career that you know, people do not start at a median income and end at a median income, right? You go across your career and you work hard across 10 years, you’re going to get a few promotions, one, two, three promotions. You’re going to get see those things go up. Even if you go into a profession like teaching, for example, you’re going to have opportunities to to raise your income. You’re going to have a potential for a pension. you’re going to have potential for side hustles in there. The compounding journey begins the day you get financially confident and then it it compounds as you get financially competent. I love that the way I paraphrasing what you were talking about earlier. And over time, these numbers begin to compound on the income front. If you keep your spend- your spending relatively flat, then you the gap will widenen every year. The compounding journey will accelerate, and eventually wealth begins to accrue. And that wealth is a function of your savings rate, right? I don’t care about anything else going on in your life. If you have a high savings rate, you will eventually become wealthy. And if you have a very high savings rate and start early in life, you will likely become very wealthy. That’s the basic fundamental unit of capital allocation. I want to call out here that once that happens in your case and for your best students, for example, then the rules begin to break down because your peak wealth will happen later in life. And and this is where I get on my my horse about like the 401K and the pretax stuff. Like I think you should stop contributing to your 401K entirely, Tiffany. You’re going to be doing this for five, 10 more years. you’re already so wealthy that there’s almost no way you’re going to be in a low-income tax bracket later on in life. and the the tax bracket for you is not going to get lower in the future for someone who’s who is going to, you know, retire to 2 and a half million a while. But I’ll be I’ll be curious about your challenge in there because I’ve been I’ve been fascinating about this subject and I’ve been really studying this this world of not people who are as wealthy as you but people who will become as wealthy as you almost certainly over a five, 10- year period.
Guest: What are the alternatives? Like where else can you stash the cash? Um, no, like I said, I I would say the vast majority of my wealth for sure is in just like taxable like investment accounts. told me early on when I started working with her that if I I told her my dream of $10,000 by the time I was 50 and she said, then you have to, you know, let’s try to go between 3 and $500,000 annually to like, can you can you sock that away that can be like invested? And I was like, okay. So I started to do that and, you know, I’m someone I’m mean I’m like I’m 90% stocks now, but at the time, I was so scared. I was like 70. I was like an 80-year- old man. I was like 70. And then what was so great about though is that, so I have investment accounts for all the kids in my life. And so, of course, because they were kids, I had them at like 90 or 100% stocks because at the time, like my nephew Roman for example, was like two. So we have plenty of time. and to see their growth relative to my growth. I was like she said this is why you need to be investing more stocks. you’re not 90. So making that shift also happened too, but yeah, I mean I’m still learning that’s the thing. I hope that people understand about this journey is that um at least for me, I I don’t have a blueprint that I know up close that I can touch and and and say, how are you? I definitely ask a lot of questions when I get in rooms with people who have more wealth than I do, which happens more and more, but can I tell you something Scot Mindy? often times I’m in those rooms and they don’t know anything. It’s a there’s not a good correlation between between financial sophistication and and wealth in many cases. I I think like people who listen to people who listen to podcast like this and have consumed hundreds of hours are often more sophisticated than people who have millions of dollars. It’s just time hasn’t passed, enough time hasn’t passed and the opportunities have not have not lined up where the bets have not played out at a high enough volume to separate those outcomes. But I I want to I want to call another thing here. I disagree with the person that was talking about finances about the bond allocation or the the the scary cat portfolio you had a few years ago. You’re asset was your business. That was what was growing in there and the fact, I bet I bet that there’s a strong correlation between the safety of that portfolio and your willingness to go keep going all in on your business or build for the long term or say no to certain revenue opportunities that might have been there but not been good for the long term. Like that’s a real benefit for an entrepreneur of those portfolios and then what happens is so at the beginning you got to build growth. Once you get to that point, I think there’s a really good window for that conservatism that you probably were in instinctively and I think it’s correct. and now I bet there’s because you’re so far past the number, there’s no reason not to put it all back into aggressive again because even in a terrible situation still has enough to insulate you from any business risk. I don’t know. How how close am I on that?
Guest: I tend to be more conservative, but you’re right that I I I felt like I needed like a and I was there for a while because we really about like cuz I I I needed a space of safety because once I feel safe, then I could fly someplace else which was the business. I always say nothing kills creativity like brokenness. you know that like if I’m worried about the volatility of like my investments that I work so hard to put this money, maybe I won’t take as many risks in other places, but I’ve taken huge risks with the Budgesta and obviously they paid off and in ways that I’m I can hardly I say the numbers and even hearing you Scott say them to me, it sounds crazy. Like cuz I’m just used to be like, oh yeah, $10 million, but I’m like, no, did you just hear what you said? I don’t think even now that I’ve fully absorbed because it doesn’t feel like it if that makes sense. Because I I mean I have a nice house, but it’s, you know, this is not like what you would think. I don’t know too many people with $10 million, so I don’t know what a $10 million person’s house would look.
Scott: I need to do this here. We we have a business that grows with you and all that stuff. You know, and here’s the thing. Most people who I know who actually, most of my friends actually have nicer houses, meaning like mine is nice on the inside, but meaning externally, like I have a friend, you know, between her and her husband, they make maybe three $400,000 a year, good money. Her house is way bigger than mine. I don’t know, it’s a it’s a strange relationship, you know, sometimes to have with money because I never expected to be wealthy. I assumed because I was good at managing my money that I would be solid and secure, but I didn’t have this, when I started the Budgesta, I was like if I could just make $500 a month, I was renting a room from from a friend. I could pay my rent. That’s literally what I thought when I started the Budgesta. If I could just make $500 a month and then I made $500 a month. I said, huh, I wonder if I can make $,000 a month. And then I made a thousand. Um my first year in Budgesta, I remember I I made maybe like $12,000 a first year, if that, second year, maybe 20. I wasn’t some rocket ship growth. I didn’t make my first six figures. I think year four, I kind of matched what I made as a preschool teacher. you know, I think I made like $50,000 in business and took home like 30 or something like that. And I was like, well, damn, I could have still been teaching preschool four years in. It was your five or six that like I had my first six figure year. I made $150,000 and my take home was maybe $60 or $70. So it wasn’t like I’m rolling in the dough. But what happened, I had this cumulative growth of knowledge that compounded because what happened is like year five, I had my first six figures. Year six, I had my first seven. And it seemed like it was out of nowhere, but it wasn’t is because I added all of this knowledge. And I realized to go from six figures to seven figures was team because I hired my first person and I wasn’t doing everything myself. And then I was like, well how do I go from seven figures to eight figures? And that’s when I had to really learn how to lead. And so that’s when I finally got to eight figures in business. Business is my favorite thing because it grows you up so much. I’m not even close to the young woman that I was mentally, emotionally, and like what I’m capable of doing than when I started my business. like I’m just so proud of who I’ve become as a result of like business growing me up.
Scott: And I’d argue that you would not have made the same decision set if you had all been all in stocks or leveraged real estate portfolio at that particular moment in time, that’s what.
Guest: So anyway, I think that’s there’s a there’s a correlation between those things. I think it’s fascinating. We we don’t get to talk to uh too many entrepreneurs who are this this transparent about their finances here, but I think yours is a really fascinating story here. How do you think it ties into the the the the wholeness mentality you bring? Like what I’m hearing here is is a great framework and a couple of pieces around the philosophy for yourself that that are still maybe moving pieces in in this discussion?
Guest: So I think that what I, financial wholeness creates a foundation that other things can grow on. that I could not do, you know, like I I don’t know that I’d be where I am now with the wealth that I’ve grown. Not I know I wouldn’t because if I was mired in debt, if I hadn’t navigated credit wisely, if I didn’t have like a budget in place, I’m not like so uh budget heavy now like I used to be, but but still, if I didn’t learn learn how to earn as far as income, certainly estate planning, especially after my husband passed away. my husband never made over $60,000 a year. He was a super for the city of Newer, like one of these huge huge huge buildings with like 300 units. He was a super never made over uh 60, but he had a pension and he had life insurance policies. He left nearly $750,000 for my stepdaughter and the same for me for a man who never made over 60. When I hear people say like, oh, no, no, no, no. That’s incredible. I didn’t even realize how much. I that’s why I bought the condo cash. I came flooded with cash and I said, you know what, I don’t know I want to live in the home that we we created together because it’s too hard to live here, but I want to live in the neighborhood and this condo came on the market. It was $500,000. I had plenty, I purchased it, and I didn’t really think I mean maybe I would have put it in the market like, but I didn’t want to have a bill. You know, I remember thinking that like for my own sense of like security, I didn’t want to have a mortgage. So, I just say that like without financial wholeness as this foundation, it doesn’t give me the space and freedom to fly. and that’s what I want for people. That you’re not stopping at financial wholeness, but it’s a foundation that allows you to fly. And I would say Scott Mindy, one of the reasons why I probably will never hit the financial ground again. Yes, in part it’s because of the wealth, but really it’s because of this foundation I’ve created. I don’t over live past my expenses. At one point I was living up like 5 to 10% of what I was even making. So that that foundation meant, Tiffany, if you had to go back to teaching preschool. Okay. and you still get to keep your house, you still get to drive your car, you still get to look after yourself. and so that financial wholeness piece is really the jumping off point for whatever the rest of your financial life you want it to be.
Scott: If we were to ask the community, I think some people would say, yes, that’s what I want. This is an awesome business. I love that surplus there. whatever you whatever you want, you can have it at the at the flick of a finger. you’re you have a real impact. You’re probably hard charging all day, every day with this business and and finding opportunities and also able to make time for the specific when you plan it the time you want. And other people who are like that sounds terrible. The 10- year grind to get that on entrepreneurship going. I don’t have that in me, it’s not what I want at all. It’s way worse than a than a good job and there, what would you say to that latter group about how their money journey should go differently than yours or the way they view it?
Guest: Um, well one, I I agree if you if if the business is going to be a grind and and leave you worse than where it kind of found you, then you shouldn’t. because I honestly, believe Scott that preschool teacher Tiffany was going to be a millionaire. Four years into teaching preschool, I was babysitting, I was doing summer programs or whatever. I had saved over $30,000. and that’s how I bought my condo, my my down payment. This is me making under 50 at the time. I was making making $45 or something. So I was on my way. I was maxing out my retirement accounts. I was living below my means, my sister was my uh roommate at the time, so she was helping me with the mortgage, right? So, maybe not to this level, but I would have made at least a million, you know, like I would have had it by the time retirement came about. So I would just say that person that like wealth can find you no matter where you are. It’s you, you know, that like if you are working a nine to five and you’re living below your means and I I talk about in the book the savings rate and your savings rate is high and you’re putting it to work intentionally and you’re checking on it, then yes, you can become a millionaire that way too. I certainly will say that nothing turbo charges unless you’re like some really well-paid executive like a business because the sky’s the limit. Like literally, I can go from someone paying me $15,000 to do a speaking engagement via Zoom to like I’ve had some financial institutions paying me $100,000 for a 45-minute chat. $100,000. And I can put that to work. And so like there’s where can I? Sometimes I I get spoiled because somebody will come to me and say, hey, Tiffany, can you do this thing for 7,500 for 15 minutes? I’m like, 7500. No. I remember myself, Tiffa. Like, do you know what you what $7,500 would have done for preschool teacher Tiffany? um, so I just say that nothing turbo charges wealth quite like a business, if you’re just starting out, but it’s not the only avenue, but you have to just be more intentional. I was able to make a lot more mistakes because I was making so much more. um but you just have to be really intentional if you decide you don’t want to go the business route. And even now, I’m actually not turbo charge anymore. Um I’m tired and I’ve wind it all the way down. One of the things I did really smart is I I I built an amazing team and many of them have been with me on average about seven, eight years and now the team has a team. I mean I maybe I have two meetings a week, you know, like I do some interviews if I feel like it like with y’all. I take the whole month of November off. That’s the the month that my husband passed away and oftentimes I take a month in the summer off. I don’t even have the grind mode in me anymore. We make less in business, but we make more in business if it makes sense because our profit margins are better because I’m smarter about spending when it comes to the business. I don’t need as much money. I’m more concerned about making sure that my team is not overworked or overwhelmed and they feel well-paid. the average person my team makes six figures. And so more so, I’m just looking, I am in the zone now. I’m 46 and I’ve I’m so fortunate that I still have like my health and my wealth and so I am transitioning to like what does life look like when I get to eat the fruit of the tree that I planted. I’ve been eating along the way but really indulging the fruit. And so that’s kind of where I am now. I don’t know what that looks like. I’ve just started this journey maybe like a year or so ago where I’m just like, what does it look like, Tiffany? to sit down a little bit. And so I’m here in Sedona, like partially practicing that, you know, since I live in Jersey.
Scott: Sounds like you’ve graduated from CEO and founder to board chairwoman. That’s what I’m hearing. or you’ve either already graduated or you’re like very much almost finished that.
Guest: I just hired a COO a year ago. He’s amazing cuz I was testing it out to see what happens if someone else tells y’all what needs to happen and he’s amazing. It’s funny because I always tell them I I I we had our team call today and I would always tell cuz mostly women on my team. We can do whatever we want. We don’t have to answer to anyone. I tell them, we’re the Queens of the castle and I’m like, oh and. So that’s you know. And so like, um and so it’s just been, yeah, it’s been amazing and I’m fortunate to be able to while I still have my health and my mind and sanity to be able to make the transition to say, what do you want to do, Tiffany? And quite honestly, I’m not sure yet. if I’m being all the way honest. I’m excited that uh the the soft cover version of get Go with Money is coming out soon. But other than that, I’m just like, aside from the budget, what does Tiffany want to do? So, I’m still figuring that out. So, yeah, I’ll I’ll let y’all know when I figure that out.
Scott: When I joined Bigger Pockets, right, I eventually evolved into this role that your your COO seems to have at this point. And one of the big challenges was Bigger Pockets needs to stop being the the Josh and Brandon show or the Josh, you know, Josh like the founder attached to it, right? because he needed to to sell the business in there. And I think that will be a major project for the budgetsta in the next few years as things go because that’s that’s at some point, that’s got that’s got that’s got to come up and be thoughtful. Well we’ve been working toward that. Honestly, I I told the team. I said, I want you to think about I’m actually flying them out to New Jersey. Not to great cuz I took them. we did our every year we go on a trip and, I won’t say we’re year six or seven where I fly everybody out, I pay for your accommodations, your flight, food, everything. We get a private chef. There’s about _ to_ of us depending on that trip on the team and this past year, we did our first international. We went to um St. Martin. It was amazing. But I’m actually flying them out to Jersey in a a couple of months because we’re having a strategic meeting where it’s, how do we build without Tiffany? And one of the things we’ve been experimenting with, which has been very successful because the profit margins are astronomical are contracts. I mean, we’ve had close to seven figure contracts where the profit for us is like 90%. We’re like an organization will hire us to do it to to teach or have their students take our classes or whatever and we get to just keep everything because there’s no real overhead. And so that’s been the shift, Scott, the non- Tiffany because I don’t teach those classes. They’re pre-recorded or we have people that we’ve trained. and so we are leaning into contracts and that would be a sellable business versus the Tiffany show that we we mostly are are currently doing now.
Scott: Have you talked to some investment bankers in the last, in, you know, as as part of this process?
Guest: No, not just yet. This has been very, very, I won’t say we just started doing contracts last year where we were like, wait a minute. I’m looking at the numbers like, is this real? Like we did something for a school district, they paid us $750,000 and it cost us 50 to execute. I was like, wait, do we get to keep $700? That’s like unheard of because there’s no there was no marketing expense. There was no we paid the teachers essentially. That was it. They paid for all the materials. and I was like, wait, so that was last year. So I said, wait a minute. So I put together a team. I have a contracts team right now that’s like working on uh getting us more contracts. and so I think in a year or two, we’ll be at a place where I told them I would love 70% of our business to be contracts. and I still do speaking engagement when I feel like it if like because it’s just cash for me when I feel like it. But I would love that because then that becomes like, you know, if somebody wanted to buy the Budget Nista, they’d be like, well, how are we going to buy it without you, Tiffany? I’m like, well, actually, most of our money does not come from me, it comes from us working with these organizations that we have multi-year contracts with because what I’ve found, this is a little tidbit, is that like government organizations and schools tend to move very slowly, meaning that like what everybody else is like on to the new thing, if you lock in a contract with a school or a government organization, you will be with them for like a long time because they turn the boat really slowly and that’s what we’re finding that you can get a two-year, three-year, four-year multi-six or seven figure contract. It does take a lot of work because there’s a lot of connections, a lot of phone calls, a lot of meetings, but once you’re locked in, you are locked in.
Scott: I think that 10 meetings with 10 different high-quality investment bankers in your industry will make you $10 million over five years. That’s what I think on there. I think I think that somebody those people are going to be like, yes, you’re right here, you’re right here, you’re wrong here. This is what they’re looking for. These are the ones there. So, anyways, I think you’ve you’ve built something really really big here and you are understating your wealth by not, I don’t know, an order of magnitude, but okay, you know, I don’t even when I talk about the 1_ million, I’m not even including the business, like the value of the business in there. Yeah, I don’t know, unsolicited advice coming out. No, no, I love it and bring your COO along for those those calls. you know or for a second round.
Guest: Go ahead and find my DMs folks because cuz I would love because I don’t know any, I, like I said, I was a preschool teacher to this. I’ve only had two jobs. So, this is such a new space for me to go into go into chat to your gro and just ask, what are some firms that have sold my industry in the last five years, who are the investment bankers that were advising on them. you can send an outbound, they will they’ll pick up the phone.
Guest: Okay. Wow, congratulations of what you’ve on the problems you have and and and the business you built and and the and the the impact you’re having here. This is this is phenomenal. No, thank you. and I’ll I’ll just say like so for those of you who are like, I’d need I mean, I I obviously if you, you know, I know you said a third of your audience is already a millionaire, but honestly, there’s nothing, nothing substitutes for strong financial foundation whether it’s you, your kid or your spouse or whatever. And so, get go with money. It was a New York Times bestseller for like eight weeks, which is crazy. It’s sold over 400,000 copies, which is also crazy. And whenever I go on to Amazon, I can’t believe we’ve got like 5,000 five star reviews. and so everybody ain’t lying. So if you are needing that, though the soft cover version is out now at getgoodwithmoney.com and if you pre-order, I’m not sure when this is going to come out. if you pre-order, it comes with a bunch of free downloadables that I’ll be gifting uh to folks who order um before it hits the shelves. But just been such a pleasure to be here.
Scott: So that coming out today, right? Today is March 31st when we’re releasing this and I think that that’s when you’re the the soft cover comes out.
Guest: Oh, awesome. Well, then you know what? I’m going to extend it. Then if you purchase and you’ll it’ll be something on the site where, you know, you put in like your your receipt number or whatever and it’s going to automatically shoot you the freeables and the things I created for people who who who buy the book early. It’s just a pleasure to do this work and I I’m really fortunate to be someone who has only ever had jobs from teacher to teacher that are in alignment with how I want to show up in the world. Like, you know, like I I get to do good work for good people and make good money and so I’ve just been really fortunate. So thank y’all for having me.
Scott: Thank you for coming on and thank you so much for sharing your wisdom for impacting so many lives with your work and thank you for not charging us $75,000 to come on the show. We we appreciate it very much. Okay, so Tiffany, the Budget Nista, where can people find out more about you online?
Guest: I am everywhere. I don’t TikTok much, but I’m there unfortunately. Uh but Instagram is by probably my favorite. LinkedIn, uh Facebook still, and my website, I am thebudgetnista and thebudgetnista.com.
Mindy: Awesome, Tiffany. It is always such a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you so much for your time today and we’ll talk to you again soon.
Guest: All right, bye-bye.
Mindy: All right, Scott, that was Tiffany Aliche and Tiffany Aliche’s amazing story of growing the budgetsta from what was her original goal, $500 a month to a little bit more than that now. What did you think of her story?
Scott: This is the the the coolest thing ever, right? I mean, I I love the unique opportunity that we’ve had Mindy you and I to just talk to hundreds and or you know, hundreds of people on this show and thousands and thousands more via email and and other and other items and it and the leverage point in a financial decision in a decision- making process is just something we instinctively kind of like look for in all of these conversations. And I just love like like I said on the show, I love taking that that that the rigor that is required to make a great decision on a first car purchase, you know, and and applying that then to the first home purchase and to a career, a major career pivot or investment approach and those types of things. And where those leverage points move throughout the journey. and here we see the very end of that that decision where where it really lies for serious entrepreneurs and those at at massive uh fortunes here, which is I own business assets now and the way to uh and act leverage in my financial position is to increase the value of those businesses, not just by increasing the profitability, but by increasing the multiple of the sale price of those businesses. and it’s just so fun to have that conversation across that journey and to have witnessed this journey from a nothing business, you know, 10 10 years ago, a very small fledgling business to an empire here today. And and I hope to have many more discussions with that with listeners who are just getting started right now about their journey 5, 10 years from now when they go through a versions of this. Not everybody will go through this. These will be rare outcomes forever. Of course, but wow, it’ll, you know, I I’m I I am sure that people listening to this episode today who are in, you know, starting with businesses that seem like they’re still struggling to get off the ground. Some of them will have this problem one day and it’s just very exciting.
Mindy: Yeah, I have watched Tiffany grow her business for the last, I I think I met her in 2015, so it’s been 11 years, and I have seen her underlying value underneath everything that she does is giving more than you are expecting. She’s helping, she’s giving, she’s teaching, she’s constantly doing for you. and it just comes back in so many different ways for her. Have you ever had an experience Scott where you’re like, wow, that was a terrible customer service experience. You’ll never get that with Tiffany. And that she’s just such a giving person and being so genuine is what sets her apart from a lot of other people who are doing similar. She’s she’s doing a financial content. She’s teaching people how to get good with money and she does it so easily. There’s no shame, there’s no judgment. It’s just like, hey, you made mistakes in the past, let’s move forward. And I just I love her so much. I I’m so excited she was able to come today and share her story and she deserves absolutely all of her success. She’s such a great person.
Scott: It’s a privilege and an honor and again like I said I’ll just reiterate my gratitude that we did not get charged $75,000 for her appearance on the show. Uh as a guest today.
Mindy: Thank you, Tiffany, we appreciate you. Congratulations on all your success and um we hope that the soft launch of this book goes phenomenally well. It deserves to and it’s a great addition to the resource library in the world of personal finance.
Mindy: Yep, and we’ll have her on again when she writes the book post-traumatic broke disorder. Love that phrase. What a great perfect description for that that mindset. So yep, she’ll be on again. I can promise you that. All right, Scott, should we get out of here?
Scott: Let’s do it.
Mindy: If you would like more financial information, you can follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube at Bigger Pockets Money. You can also head over to biggerpocketsmoney.com to sign up for our weekly newsletter and you can also find free resources, calculators and templates to accelerate your F journey. All right, that wraps up this episode of the Bigger Pockets Money Podcast. He is Scott Trench. I am Mindy Jensen saying tootle Noodle.
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