Mindy: Welcome to the BiggerPockets Money podcast, where we interview J Money from Budgets are Sexy and talk about retiring, unretiring, picking up an autoimmune disease, and his current portfolio.
Halloo, halloo, halloo. My name is Mindy Jensen and with me as always is my definitely not retired co-host, Scott Trench.
Scott: Great to be here with my fired but not fired co-host, Mindy Jensen.
Mindy: Scott and I are here to make financial independence less scary, less just for somebody else, to introduce you to every money story because we truly believe financial freedom is attainable for everyone, no matter when or where you’re starting.
Scott: That’s right. Whether you want to retire early and travel the world, go on to make big time investments in assets like real estate, start your own business, sell that business, buy that business back, and live the life of a financially independent multimillionaire, we’ll help you reach your financial goals and get money out of the way so you can launch yourself towards your dreams.
Mindy: Scott, before we bring in Jay, we have a new segment of our show called the Money Moment where we share a money hack, tip, or trick to help you on your financial journey. Today’s money moment is, okay, let’s face it. Birthday parties are expensive, especially kids’ birthday parties. between the venue, the cake, the decorations, and those darn goody bags, things add up quick. Write this down, Scott, you’ll need this for later.
What if you could slash your budget? Venue? How about the local park or lake? All kids want to do is play anyway. Cake? Hello, Costco. Decorations, the dollar store has you covered, and goody bags? Look, from one mom to another, I hate those things. They’re filled with cheap crap that I don’t want in my house. Skip it. Or give something that isn’t going to annoy the mom.
Scott: Mindy, we I I actually went to a party recently and uh we brought all these like fancy toys we’ve got for our nine-month-old. You know what her favorite thing to play with was?
Mindy: The box or the wrapping paper.
Scott: Yeah, the plastic plate.
Mindy: Yes.
Scott: There you go. Best gift, you know, we took a couple extra plates from that party.
Mindy: Yes, that is the most fun your baby will have. That or a box. Get a great big box and she will crawl around in that for hours, weeks, months.
Do you have a money saving tip for us? Email moneymoment@biggerpockets.com.
Okay, Scott, I’m so excited to bring Jay Money back because he is such a fun person to talk to and he is going to give us a little glimpse into what he’s been doing in the last few years.
Scott: Yeah, it’s exciting to to catch up with Jay and uh, uh really fun, really fun to hear what’s going on. Obviously there’s been some some setbacks there, but uh he seems to be living his best life uh uh that he can right now.
Mindy: Yep, setbacks but he’s taking them in stride.
Scott: Jay Money is one of the OG personal finance bloggers from way back in the day.
Mindy: The Miley Cyrus of finance.
Scott: Maybe the Hannah Montana.
Mindy: No, he’s the Miley Cyrus of finance.
Scott: Okay.
Mindy: It says so on his Twitter bio. He started blogging in 2008 and stopped, sort of, in 2019 when he sold Budgets are Sexy to the Motley Fool. He recently reacquired the blog and posts kind of whenever he feels like it cuz he’s retired, right? Jay joined us on episode 103 where he shared his money story and we’re back today to catch up with all the things that he has been up to in the last three years. Sit back because he might be unemployed, but he is not bored. Jay, welcome to the BiggerPockets Money podcast. I am so excited to talk to you.
Guest: Hi. I love talking to you all.
Mindy: So for our new listeners, can you give us a little bit about yourself, your blog, and how you got into the finance world, Miley Cyrus of finance?
Guest: Yeah, yeah, I should like the Hannah Montana, cause it’s like a double life, right? I have my online life, this J money guy, and then my real life, which I’m not J Money in real life, obviously.
Mindy: Wait, that’s not your real name?
Guest: Yeah, isn’t that crazy? I know.
Scott: Did you legally change it to J Money?
Guest: No, that’d be so cool. No, no, no, no. I have a nice boring name, not not very marketable, so we stick with the J Money. Um, but yeah, I mean, I am like just a regular dude and um, back in 2008, um, I was looking for a place to rent. Um, actually maybe closer to 2007. Um, we came across this nice place for sale, and within 48 hours, just randomly, we ended up buying, um, no money down, no budget. Like that was right before, you know, the big housing crash was about to happen. Um, and then I was like, oh man, I should probably, uh, get a budget and so I started googling and I kept coming across all of these like people, I didn’t even know what a blog was. There were just people talking about money, but they were like showing like real life numbers and net worths, and I was just so like addicted to it. Like I learned and it was fun and we had a community. And then after a couple of months, I was like, I’m going to start a blog, you know. Um, and we came up with budgets are sexy and then, um, yeah, one thing led to another and here we are, gosh, 15 years later, you know, semi retired and all from the blog. I mean, all my friends change, I learned about entrepreneurship and it’s crazy. It’s crazy what you can do now, just having the internet, you know, it’s awesome.
Scott: Did, um, producing your first budget improve your dating life for the name of your your blog?
Guest: It would have if I was already dating slash, uh, engaged. So, um, I’d like to think that it it helps lots of single people out there. Yes. I have pretty pictures in there in my in my budget. I I have a spreadsheet that I give giveaway, uh, for free online. Um, and it has like all colors in it, it has like sexy all over the place. So, you know, we try to have fun and this stuff is usually kind of boring as as many of us know.
Mindy: Excuse me, budgets are not boring, they are sexy.
Guest: That’s right. Yeah, go to budgets are boring.com and see what happens. I think I still have that site up there.
Scott: So, you know, I I’d also like to dive into your personal relationship history with the budgets are sexy.com uh uh company, the the the the blog that you’ve produced here. Uh, last time we chatted with you, I think you were the proud and prodigious owner of budget sexy.com, and then you sold it and retired. I’ve heard there’s been some new developments on that front. Can you tell us what’s going on there?
Guest: Yeah, so after about 10 or 12 years, um, I wanted to change. I was getting into minimalism. I was like, oh, what would happen if I didn’t have the blog in my life? Like, it’s such a big part of you, you know. Um, I had like a million kids and I was like, oh, I just wanna, you know, it’s just time for a change. Um, and the Motley Fool was working on some cool stuff at the time and one thing led to another and they end up buying it and then I worked with them for a few years. Um, we built a creation site called allstarmoney.com for about a year. Um, their division kind of changed and they were like, hey, we’re not buying sites anymore. We’re not getting in this industry. Um, do you want the blog back? And I thought, oh my, what? Like, I was like perfectly at peace, you know, like I I did my run, it was fun. Um, but the opportunity came and I thought, well, and, you know, this is, I don’t know, I guess I could do it. I I literally had nothing else to do at the time. Um, and I actually had gotten sick, um, for a few months. So I was like down on the dumps. Um, and then when I bought the blog back, I thought, oh, this is great. I have something to do. I was all energized. I started feeling better health wise because we figured out a diagnosis. Um, and this was last year. Um, yeah, and then ever since, it’s just been a kind of a fun hobby. You know, like when it started with, I blog for the fun of it because it was a community talking about money. I didn’t really know it could be a business, and then once you find out it’s a business, you know, like it kind of changes and it’s not as fun. Um, and so now we’re back to just, you know, the roots, which is kind of cool.
Mindy: I think you can still be blogging for fun and make a little bit of money on the side. Um, we’ve been in this space together for a while. Our paths have overlapped and I’ve watched like you have watched people come in and blog for the love of it, and then blog simply for the money. And you can always tell when somebody’s blogging just for the money. Um, it doesn’t feel as genuine.
Guest: Yeah, I mean blogs, what they are, you know, it’s like your diary of your thoughts. You know, I don’t think it was meant to be monetized, but we kind of accidentally learned that you could monetize it, you know. Um, but you’re right, there’s some good people out there still doing it for the love of it and yeah, it definitely shows.
Mindy: Yeah. Well, I think that your blog really shows your love of what you’re talking about because it’s not just all money. I mean, I got your email today, you’re talking about paying your kids to pick up the dog poop and
Guest: Yeah. Trying to pay them. Yeah, I was giving them good money and they wouldn’t they wouldn’t take it.
Mindy: Spoiler alert. Kids don’t want to pick up dog poop. Who’d have thought?
Guest: I know. And I thought everything was about money at this age, but I guess I guess I was wrong.
Mindy: Uh, you mentioned your illness and that’s something that I think is very interesting to talk about because you’re retired and you live in America, so you have crappy healthcare, um, or maybe you do, maybe you have great healthcare. And then you decided that life wasn’t chaotic enough with uh three boys, you thought you’d pick up a autoimmune disease.
Guest: Yeah.
Mindy: How, how’s that going? How does that affect your finances? Because as I if I’m correct, this is just going to kind of come and go throughout your life for the rest of your life, right? There’s no cure for this.
Guest: Yeah, yeah, it’s called um Pemphigus Volgaris and it’s like this nasty autoimmune blistering disease. Um, a lot of people have it outside on their skin where it just takes over your body and it looks miserable. I’ve heard it feels miserable. Uh, mine weirdly is just inside, like inside my mouth and nose and in my throat when it happens. Um, so in the beginning after a couple months of this, just, I mean, just randomly just started happening. Um, like I couldn’t swallow. Um, I could breathe, but I couldn’t swallow an eat and I said, oh, I should, you know, probably go to the hospital. kind of get that figured out. Um, and no one at the hospital knew what it was. It took me another month and a half until we finally diagnosed it, um, through a dermatologist out of, you know, all people, I didn’t know they, you know, worked in the mouth, but they do. Um, so if you ever have anything funky on your skin and your mouth, they are the first, you know, people I would check out. Um, yeah, and once we figured it out, it’s basically one of those things that comes and goes. Um, there are treatments for it. Um, it’s kind of like a, kind of like a chemotherapy infusion type of stuff. Um, and that cost, man, you do a round of two of them, um, every couple years and it’s each one injection is like $22,000, at least through my insurance. Um, and then, you know, you’re out of pocket, you know, is a thousand, $2,000. Um, so it gets pretty pricey. And if you have no insurance, I can’t even, like I can’t even imagine how you deal with that. Um, my wife still works, so we use her insurance. Um, thank thankfully, so that that’s been helpful. Um, but it’s weird. It’s like, you know, I felt like I was dying and then I felt all better. And then actually when you reached out to be on this podcast, I was sitting there actually getting, you know, the fluids inside of me, you know, as I was in the hospital and you asked to be on the show. Um, you know, so it’s, yeah, it’s just crazy, just comes out of nowhere.
Mindy: And there’s, is there any like rhyme or reason to what brings a flup or is it just like, hey, I’m feeling great, let’s have a knockdown.
Guest: Yeah, no. Um, I mean there’s like certain um, what’s it called, like genes that people have and if you have the gene there’s like a 1 in 10,000 chance that it’ll be activated. Once it’s activate, like they say it’s in your, it’s like dormant I guess and then a number of things can pile up and then activate it like stress I guess can activate it like your health and you know like how you eat and exercise and stuff I think has a part to do with it but more or less he’s like no you just it just happens you know and um and people like I go to Johns Hopkins in Baltimore um and it’s like renowned for this specific disease, this type of disease and people flying from all over the world, third world countries especially that don’t have access and they are just like, like my case is so mild compared to some of these other people that have dealt years of and he said like, look, you’re, if you don’t treat it, like it’s not going to technically kill you, but like you’ll want to die and eventually you’ll just like consume your whole body, you know, and I guess at some point it might kill you if you can’t, you know, swallow like like happened to me, but, um, yeah, it’s a nasty one. Probably not that fun to talk about on on a finance show, but I’m happy to, but it is expensive. So there’s your tie in.
Scott: Thank you for sharing this. This is really, you know, a gut punch, um, uh, uh for you with this diagnosis and this this situation. Um, but yeah, you know, while we’re talking about the the finances of this and the the high health costs in this country, how how do you as an entrepreneur and a business owner, how how how have you set things up to and and and how has that uh worked in this situation with the uh the recent medical issues you’ve had?
Guest: Um, you know, I used to budget a lot back in the beginning and then once I kind of figured out like, hey, spend less than you earn. Um, I just got really good into the habit of just saving and investing a lot over the last 10 years since I kind of got consumed in this, um, personal finance world. Um, and so for me I haven’t really done anything a little different. Um, it’s kind of falls in the bucket like, you know, like I have a few thousand dollars where I’m like, hey, something’s going to happen. I don’t know what it’s gonna be. Like, you know, tires popping, you know, or something, you know, home ownership as we all know is, you know, crazy expensive at times. Um, so just kind of falls in the like I know I’m going to spend money this year on on who knows what. Um, and I just have that set aside, you know, just generally over the last 10 years. So this just pulls from that. Um, you know, but there are people, I mean, like I’ve gotten four infusions in a year and it should last a few years in a in a perfect world. But every time I go in there, there’s people that have to go in two or three times a week. You know, they have cancer, they have these other things that this um medicine treats you for. And I don’t know how they do it. I mean, it’s miserable to have the disease. It’s miserable to do the infusions and take all the time, you know, hours a week. But then to have to like go in debt and spend money on this stuff too, like it’s wild. I I don’t have any good answers for that, just sad.
Scott: More specifically, how are you, um, how do you handle insurance in a general sense as a business owner and financially independent person?
Guest: Um, well for me my wife still works, um, and so and she loves to work. I’ve kind of try and convince her every now and then not to, but she enjoys what she does, um, and she has insurance. Um, so I thankfully don’t have to, um, you know, worry about that. Um, if she were to take me up on the offer to stop working, you know, I think I would just consume all the fire blogs out there and see what everyone does. That’s how I do with a lot of my stuff, my investment. I’m like, what is all of my friends doing online that’s smart about this? And then I kind of, you know, do my research from there. and somewhere like the health ministries that have popped up a lot of times over, um, the fire movement, I’d probably start look looking there just because I keep seeing that all the time. Um, you know, but, but yeah, fortunately she still works and and has that insurance, which is really helpful. And, you know, especially since we have three kids too, like they’re always banging up and we’re always at the doctors, you know, every other week, so.
Mindy: I’m sorry, I’m not laughing. I’m just, I’m thinking of uh we have a friend, Aaron, uh Aaron Chase. I follow her on Facebook and her boys are having a competition, who can go to the ER more in uh in a year. Um she’s just so I think of your three boys and her four boys and I’m like, whoo hoo girls, yay.
Guest: Yeah, yeah. Well, and you know what? Like even like, like I guess if we, like let’s say we have no insurance, like I enjoy working, so like my perfect lifestyle is to work a few hours in the morning on whatever projects and then, you know, just do whatever for the rest of the time. Um, and so like I would literally probably work at Starbucks or or work somewhere that I enjoy that has a benefits package and just do part-time or trade away shifts and stuff to people who want more shifts, that kind of stuff. Um, there’s all these like, you know, little hacks, I feel like you could do if you really, you know, wanted to to, you know, have insurance in a different way. and, you know, in our world too is like, are you refined? Well no, you’re not retired. Like this whole big thing, but I think it comes down to the freedom, you know, and like if you enjoy working and you want to do stuff and be productive, you know, that’s great and and you can get these benefits like health insurance and other stuff at times.
Mindy: Yeah, well, you brought it up, so let’s let’s address the elephant in the room. Your wife does work, so you’re not financially independent. You’re wife-fi.
Guest: On life, life fi. Yeah.
Minky: Your wife-fi. My husband is also wife-fi. Um, does your wife have a timeline for retirement?
Guest: No, no. Every time I mention it like, oh, we should travel the world for a year or be nomads or whatever, you know, cuz I, you know, I I love all that kind of stuff. Um, she she likes the stability and she likes, she enjoys what she does. Um, and I think she’s always more conservative to me, like I’m pretty out there at times. So we are a nice balance in that respect. And I think maybe because of the boys and me, like she, like the the stability makes her happy, you know. For me, it does not make me that happy. I mean, so it’s a, it’s an interesting, you know, dichotomy there. But, um, yeah, no, she, she, every time I hear people talk, if she says, oh yeah, my husband, well, he just putters around or he’s retired or whatever she says to people, they always ask her and she’s like, I’m gonna be doing it for a couple decades. So, we’ll see.
Mindy: So you’ve you’ve mentioned the word stability a couple of times and I, I know my specific situation and I have a fairly good handle on your specific situation, but not everybody listening does. How does she feel about you not working? Because there can be some really, uh, really big feelings of resentment. Oh, I’m still working and he’s not, or feelings of maybe they would have this resentment.
Guest: Yeah, she’s been pretty good and I think because when we started, um, I think we were only dating for a couple of years when I kind of fell into this whole entrepreneur stuff. Like I’m kind of an accidental entrepreneur. Um, so I think she’s used to that from the beginning and even when I was blogging and I had a full-time job, um, I got let go from that job. And like my first thought was like, oh my gosh, I’m a full-time blogger, you know, like just automatically, right? Um, and I remember she was super nervous and she was like, well, like what’s the backup plan? I said, well, I’ll just do it for a couple of months and then if it doesn’t work out, I I’ll go get a job, you know. And then I just never did so it’s kind of been this whole thing like a project I saw the blog, okay, like what are you going to do? Well, I’m going to work on projects, you know I think since projects keep coming and going, um, like she’s used to that and she knows I’m always gonna be doing something. So it’s not like even like as technically I’m retired, I’m still working on stuff. Um, and even around the house, like the other year I thought, well, now that I have more time, you know, what can I do to take stuff off her plate? Um, so I started doing laundry every day. Um, I started grocery shopping this year. Um, which is a whole, whole experience. And um, so like I’m doing, I’m actually, there’s a lot of stuff I do as like a, I dunno, sometimes I just say I’m a stay at home daddy, you know. Um, and I do everything with the kids, I’m taking them everywhere cause she’s, you know, a typical 9 to 5 and she works for the government. Um, you know, so she’s not as flexible. Um, yeah, so I think I think if I wasn’t doing any of that stuff and all I was doing is like selfish stuff and going and having fun and drinking and bowling and doing whatever I do, then I think um, she would have brought it up, you know. But I I stay helpful. I stay helpful.
Mindy: So, something I’ve always wondered when I introduce my husband as unemployed, I’m joking. but if I, I kind of have to be careful about my audience. I can’t just, you know, introduce him to the neighbors as, oh this is my husband, he’s unemployed, because it sounds like I resent it and I don’t. Ah.
Mindy: What do your friends think about her working and you not? Because being a stay-at-home dad is honorable and wonderful and I was a stay-at-home mom, but being a stay-at-home mom is way more common than being a stay-at-home dad and we live in America and there’s this whole like macho, the man provides kind of garbage and I’m just, do you know what I mean? Like, I’m wondering if anybody has a, like has anybody ever said anything to you about this?
Guest: Um, no, but two things, one, and my wife, it drives her crazy because I’m always taking the kids everywhere and the events I’m at is usually all moms. All the moms love me and they’re like, oh, you’re such a good dad. Oh, good for you. Even though I’m like literally doing the same thing as they’re doing, I do get a lot more credit than I probably deserve. And my wife’s like, that drives me crazy. Like if it was me, they would never say anything. Um, so that’s one thing I’ve noticed a lot. Um, but so far my friends, and maybe because maybe they thought I’ve been unemployed for so long, like blogging because it’s not like a real job, you know, like they don’t get it. They don’t really, they, like the only thing I ever hear is like, oh, I wish I can, you know, work in my pajamas and go to the coffee shop all day. Like that’s what I hear a lot. You know, so no one really, no one says anything, at least, at least to my face. But and and you guys, right, all my friends now, I mean I have friends in real life, but it’s all the online community, you know. Like you guys are my friends, like so I’ve swapped. I only have online friends now that are cool. I curated everything.
Scott: So Jay, can you, um, uh, can you give us a, a life in the day, a, like a recent day that was really good. What, what, what does it look like top to bottom and how do you, how, how do we kind of think about how you spend your time in that context?
Guest: Yeah. Well, today’s actually a perfect day. Like I took the kids to camp. Like around 9:00 a.m..
Scott: What camp are they going to?
Guest: Uh, they’re just going to like a summer fun, you know, camp put through the city. Not nothing crazy, just like arts and, you know, playground stuff. Um, but I woke up like 6:00 a.m. I first I woke up at 6:00 a.m., had coffee. I I like to read finance articles, you know, so I did that. I just I do what I call corresponse for I’m just responding to emails, seeing what I have to do for the day. you know, um, and just really just having two hours of peace to myself with like everyone sleeping. Um, it’s like the best thing I’ve done for my lifestyle in the last 10 years. Um, and then I took the kids to to camp. I went to the coffee shop for an hour and a half and I, um, it I had a new blog post out today, so I, you know, responded to comments, did social. Um, and then I I, you know, I have the whole day until I pick them up at which I’m doing after this call, after this podcast. Um, and I thought, oh, I’m going to go volunteer. I started volunteering at a homeless shelter, so I was like, this is great. I’m just going to pop over there. I did that for about an hour, two hours, saw my old friends there, helped them out. Then I was like, oh, I got to go grocery shopping. There’s, you know, we haven’t been out for a few few days. So I went grocery shopping for about 45 minutes. Um, a friend needed help with his Zoom call trying to do video stuff. So I popped on with him, had some lunch. and then I looked at the time and it was time for you guys. So, um, yeah, like this to me is ideal where it’s all with go with the flow. Um, I have stuff to do, but it’s not like, besides the podcast, it’s not like at an exact time, you know, and I had time for me in the morning and then when we’re done, I’ll have time with the kids and then, you know, that’s it. It’s not, there’s nothing glamorous, but it’s to my own perfect lifestyle, you know, and that’s what I realized in the last handful of years. Like I want to work a few hours, I want to play and I want to be productive, but I want to like go with the flow and and not have like timetables as much.
Scott: Love it. I I I think that that’s just like such a good model for like a happy, productive day, giving back, being productive, having plenty of you time, and like that’s the goal. This is not like some, you know, and I I’ll say it, it’s not some glamorous like you’re on a island, you know, or on a mountain top or whatever, uh crazy thing. This is this is a really nice, wonderful, wholesome day that you’re able able to enjoy here.
Guest: A boring day. Yes, something that wouldn’t get go viral on social media if I put that out there.
Scott: But that that that’s what this is, right? That’s what retirement or early retirement is like, right? There’s going to be normal days in a healthy, wholesome, productive, happy routine, um, that you put in place there. We we were debating today about a new, um, a new, uh, YouTube series where Mindy, um, follows people around while they’re doing their grocery shopping and hounds them and surprises them with, um, small mistakes that they’re making in terms of, uh, expense and optimization on their grocery runs. So we might have to call you up for the pilot episode of that one.
Mindy: Jay, why did you buy those silly that cereal, the other one’s on sale?
Guest: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, I always come back with like, you know, 20 things more than that was not on my list. But but to my credit, I only buy when it’s on sale and you know you’re going to eat it at some point. I’m like, well, I’m going to buy like six of these, right? Like, I’ll be good for six months. Like peanut butter. That stuff is so expensive. I would never knew how expensive peanut butter was until this year. And it is expensive. And so I when I find a deal, I, you know, I get six or seven of them. spend like 50 bucks or so.
Scott: Jay may be wife-fi, but he’s still bringing home the bacon.
Guest: Yeah, literally.
Yeah, that’s good. I’m gonna I might have to steal that. That’s funny. You know, and and even with finance too, like when I first started doing grocery shopping, this was like four months ago, I think or five months ago. I thought, well, I’m going to make a spreadsheet. I’m going to go to like all the grocery stores and document which ones are cheaper and I’m going to have this whole strategy of, you know, because I have all the time, right? Like, I’ll have, I’ll go to six stores in a day and get the best deal. But every time I then thought of shopping, I was like, I don’t even want to leave. Like it’s so overwhelming. And so I, I’ve eventually only got it down to two stores and like, like Walmart, I’ll go like once a month and do a big run. And then my local grocery store, I’ll go often and I do spend more money, probably, I don’t know, maybe 50 dollars more a month doing that, but like, it makes my lifestyle so better, you know, and and I could only do that because I’ve saved for so long, you know. So, it it is interesting that like, even though I thought I was going to be super frugal and come back and tell my wife, look at all, look how much money I’ve saved our family since I’ve taken over, you know, like it’s definitely not the case.
Mindy: So, so, so you and your family have taken over? That’s definitely not the case. Well, on that note,
Guest: On that note, I I will say though, I’m very, I love decluttering as a minimalist and I declutter our pantry and she’ll put things on the list and I’m like, we have like five of these, you know. And so like I’m better at like that part of the the the process.
Mindy: I like that, working together. Um I was going to say I have a pantry full of stuff that I bought when it was on sale and I bought seven of them and they get shoved to the back and you can’t find them and then you go buy more and um I did just hire a professional organizer to come over and help me declutter my house. Um
Guest: Ah, wow.
Mindy: Yeah, that’s one of the things that came out of the Ramit podcast was I’m going to hire a house cleaner and I’m going to hire a professional organizer.
Guest: Oh my gosh, good for you.
Mindy: Yeah, we had our first um, our first session and it was, I see how she works. She’s worth the money.
Guest: One corner of one room is now complete, right?
Mindy: We spent four hours doing underneath the bathroom cabinets in two bathrooms.
Guest: Oh my goodness.
Mindy: Yeah. I mean it was like there’s a lot of stuff in there. First we take it all out and then we sort it and then we sort it again and I saw how she works. I like how she works. It’s going to be a good experience and now I can take that and like I don’t need her to help me sort through my socks. I could do that myself but in the kitchen I’m going to need some help.
Guest: But she got the good process. Yeah, she is still a good process for you. That’s important.
Mindy: So it’s gonna be a hybrid. She’s gonna come over and then I’m gonna do some work by myself and then come back and do another room with me and then I’ll do some work by myself.
Guest: That’s interesting. Yeah, you don’t see many people in our space doing that because you get like all the hate mail coming in.
Mindy: Yeah, if anybody wants to give me guff about that, my email is scott@biggerpockets.com.
Guest: Hey, there you go.
Mindy: Okay, but the show is not about me. The show is about J Money. So J Money, we’ve talked about the J part. Let’s talk about the money part. Last year, 2022, I don’t know if you noticed, but the stock market was kind of squiggy. And at the same time, you are going through some expensive, uh, drugs. What, how did the market ups and downs affect your mentality about early retirement and, and financial independence?
Guest: Um, it it didn’t. I don’t know if that’s weird to say. I don’t, um, it does not bother me. Actually, I was talking to someone today that’s just starting to get into real estate at the coffee shop and they’re like, you know, and I told him last year to start investing, especially as it was going down. He’s like, no, no, no, everyone’s pulling their money out and it’s crazy. It’s crazy. And so now I’m meeting him a year later and I said, well, did you invest or no? He said, no, I should have, the market’s back up, blah blah blah. I’m like, I told you, I know, like we all know this, but your emotions, like gets the best of us, you know. Um, I mean, I’m pretty emotional in general, but for some reason, because I think because we’re just consumed, you know, we’re in this world, like I just don’t pay attention. And if I think anything it’s like I’ll just, you know, because I’m currently, I’m always constantly investing recurringly. So I know that I’m going to get stuff on a deal, you know, and then when it goes up, it’s like, okay, but then like I’m buying it more expensive. So it’s not really ever a win-win, you know, except for the long run, right? Like I read something today was like, just invest, don’t look at it for 20 years if you can and you are going to be like the happiest person in 20 years, you know. And granted that’s index funds and not stock picking and stuff. Um, but I think that’s true. So to answer your question, you know, I just, I don’t, it does not bother me. Um, and maybe if it was like two or three years of it, I start questioning perhaps, you know. Um, but even during the market crash, right? Like right when I got into personal finance, I was funneling money in and the whole market was going down, down, down, you know, and I was like, okay, this is crazy, but then it went up for what, like 10 years. Like it was crazy. Um, so I, I think like I know in the back of my mind, like this is good, you’re in it for the long haul. It’s not like you need to start pulling money today, right? And it doesn’t count until you hit the sell button, you know, like it’s still, it’s all fake money until you hit sell, so.
Scott: Can can you give us an overview of kind of what your where you allocate money in your portfolio and how you how you invest?
Guest: Yeah, so I, um, I used to be all over the place. I would literally like see what Warren Buffett’s doing and then I’m like, oh, I’m just going to copy him thinking that was really smart. And of course he’s Warren Buffett and has different specials than we get and so, um, they did okay, but then someone else woul give me a hot tip and I’m like, all right, I’ll invest in that. And then I went on the Doler podcast, um, I don’t know, six or seven years ago, and he asked me like what my fun fees were. I was like, I don’t know. He’s like, you are a finance blogger and you don’t know what are you invested in? I was like, I honestly couldn’t tell you there’s like 80 things I have. And he didn’t get mad at me, but he like, I tell he was shaking his head even though I couldn’t see him. And he’s like, just like read like JL Collins and stuff. So I was like, okay. And then I realized like everyone in the fire space does index funds. And I was like, all right. So like I made up my mind and I cashed out of everything. I went 100% into index funds up until two years ago. It was 100% into um, VTSX, uh Vanguard’s, you know, index. Um, and that’s it. That’s, that’s literally all I had. Um, and then we got a small inheritance on my wife’s side a couple of years ago when her mother died, um, and we kind of like went into like a little bit of bonds and a little bit of international, but they’re all, um, Vanguard index funds. Um, so I think I have like three or four funds total, all index funds. Um, and every now and then I’ll like, oh, I’m gonna be good at crypto and so I buy Bitcoin and then it crashes the next day and I’m like, oh, I’ll just wait it out and then it crashes more and so I think in the last couple years when I was bored I put in like, I don’t know, 20,000 over a couple years and then I pulled out 10 a couple months ago so, um, I, I dibble dabble but I’m, I’m 99.9% is index fund.
Scott: And and do you own a house?
Guest: Oh, yes, we do. Um, yes, we own our house and we paid that off. Um, and so yes, that is another, um, yeah, but that doesn’t earn money. That that sucks up all our money.
Mindy: Wait, you paid off your house?
Guest: Yeah, yeah, I paid off, yeah, I paid off. Oh, that’s right. I’m not supposed to, right? No bad. Like
Mindy: Give me back your FI card.
Scott: There there’s a couple of things I’ll point out on this though, as well, when you have a paid off house, right? So like there’s there’s the math, right? And then there’s the reality and the practical sense of freedom here. Jay is actually not working and enjoying this day and lifestyle. And I associate, I have found over the course of hundreds of these chats, Mindy, that the people who are actually doing those kind of chill days, these wonderful, awesome, uh uh lifestyle benefits, that they have somehow, some way not optimized the math of their end state portfolio to some degree because having a paid off house is just freeing and easy. It’s done. You don’t have to worry about it, right? Like one one less thing to work to worry about with it. So Jay, I have two more questions on your portfolio here. One, how much cash do you have relative to your annual spending on hand?
Guest: Well, we have, um, in our savings account, um, $30,000 in there. Um, and since my wife works, a majority of her money goes to paying, all of her paychecks go to paying a majority of our, um, expenses, um, because, you know, we don’t have the house payment. So that’s a big chunk obviously. Our cars are paid off, um, you know, and then really it’s like kids stuff and um, you know, Amazon is where a lot of our money gets. I definitely don’t dare, uh break that down. She’s in charge of Amazon. so, um, you know, but uh but yeah, I don’t know if that answers your question. We have yeah, so we have savings and then everything that’s not in savings is in the market, um, or in the house since we paid that off. Um, and that’s it. I don’t own businesses or anything anymore.
Scott: If if your wife were to stop working, would you reposition some of your portfolio into a different allocation than paid off house, small savings balance and VTASX essentially?
Guest: Um, I would not change the investments. I would keep that the same, um, because I’m I’m pretty risk adverse so I’d probably keep that for decades. Um, I would I would refinance the house, um, and get that chunk of cash and start living off of that more. Um, and still probably invest as much as I could. Um, I mean the house, I mean, you know, and then, you know, we know there’s pros and cons to it. Right now it makes sense, but yeah, if I needed money, um, and I want to keep this lifestyle going, then I’m, I’m fine with having debt. It’s not like I hate debt all the way, but, um, yeah, but the situation would change, you know. And there’s times too where sometimes I do think about that. I’m like, oh I want to, like, like if I, if there was a business opportunity that came by and I was like, oh my gosh, I need like, you know, I don’t know what our house is worth. Let’s say 400,000. Like, if I needed 400,000 cash, like, I would much rather refinance the house and go all in than like take it from my investments, you know, and a lot of my investments too is in, you know, IRA, um, you know, SEP IRA and a Roth IRA, um, as well as brokerage, so it’s, I can’t even tap all of that. Um, yeah, so I think, so for now, yeah, for now it works, but yeah, if no more income was coming in and I didn’t want to get a part-time job or anything, then yeah, I would, I would refinance the house and go that why route.
Scott: Awesome. and and I’ll also call out that we have one additional asset here that was not listed which is the budgets or sexy business, right?
Guest: Um, yeah, yes and no. Uh when I sold it, yes, it was a business. Um, part of the reasons without going in too much is that the strategy and the um what Motley Fool thought was going to happen did not happen all the way. And so the the business was a lot smaller when I took it back. Um, and since I took it back, I got rid of ads, I I redesigned it. Um, and it makes a frac- like a fraction of what it used to. Um, so I guess technically yes, I could sell it again, which would be crazy for a little bit, but I don’t even, I don’t even count that.
Scott: Well it’s just awesome to get into the the mine of the mind of someone who’s living that um uh you know the the the lifestyle the fire lifestyle and how you think about the the allocation of these portfolios um and and how you think about setting those things up. So thanks for sharing all that with us.
Guest: Yeah, sure. Yeah and I should give a shout out yeah Dough Roller and JL Collins especially, um his stock series is what I got sucked into um and really and the whole community really. I mean that’s what’s nice about it right? like even me who I’m living and breathing finance, there’s a certain areas we don’t like or care about or we’re just bad at, you know, so to have other people that is their specialty and to lean on them is great. It’s awesome.
Mindy: Yeah, and I want to say, uh, I was just teasing about the whole paid off house thing. Eventually, I’ll have a paid off house. I think 29 years from now I’ll have a paid off house. Okay. But that’s a choice and I can sleep just fine knowing that I have a mortgage payment because it’s not that much because it was, you know, it was back when the mortgage rates were super, super low and I think it is fine that you have paid off your house because you did it on purpose, weighing the pros and cons, knowing what you are getting versus giving up, and I think so many people subscribe to, what’s the Dave Ramsey intro? The paid off house is the equivalent of the BMW or whatever he says. Not necessarily. If you’re just paying off your house to pay off your house because you don’t know what to do with your money, then maybe that’s a a good thing, but if you’re paying off your house so then you can go spend your what you would have been paying towards your house on other dumb stuff that you don’t need, then maybe that’s not the best choice for you. And, you know, you should with your money, you should do things intentionally.
Guest: Yeah, yeah. And I will even say that I don’t even want to own a house. Like I like renting. I love renting. Going back to minimalism, right, and freedom. Like I’d rent in a heartbeat. You know, my wife does not like that idea and my kids, going back to the stability stuff, right? Um, so, you know, I said, okay, well, that’s best for the family. I’ll I’ll do it. And and buying now and paying off a house now versus 15 years ago when I didn’t have a budget or or any idea. It’s like a way different life, you know, your mind is a lot different. I was freaked out every time anything happened because I had no money, right? Like I bought a house and I didn’t have like any money going on. Um, so now when something breaks, it’s still annoying as hell, but at least like you don’t have to worry about the finances part. Um, so, but yeah, I, I would I love renting and anytime someone debates owning a home when I could tell they’re not ready. It’s like, no, just rent. Like you do not have to own if you do not want to, you know.
Mindy: JL Collins finally convinced me to that renting was okay because until a conversation with him several years ago, I was like, no, you should always buy. why wouldn’t you buy? And then he made, like he, I think he was the first person to make a good point that like made sense to me why renting was okay. So now yeah, if you don’t want to buy a house, if you don’t want to own or you’re not sure, that’s the best time to not own a house.
Scott: I I rented until April of 2023. So, I I completely agree.
Guest: Oh, did you? Oh, really? You just you just bought?
Scott: I I I moved into a rental property I bought in 2019 in April, 2023.
Guest: Oh, okay. Oh, okay. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Oh, that’s cool. That’s funny.
Scott: Yeah, the CEO of Bigger Pockets was a renter.
Guest: See that?
Mindy: Okay, Jay, what is next for you?
Guest: Um, this this is it. I do not, again, my lifestyle is set up. So now, I think that’s one thing I realized, like before it was like, the future is my blog, or the future is this awesome other project, or or with finances, right, like hitting fire. And I think I’m at the point where like, just give me something fun to work on every day, give me the freedom. And I don’t even care what it is. Like, like again, like working at the homeless shelter, like I have just as much joy doing that as I do blogging, or going for a walk, or or spending $100 on a nice dinner. Like it’s all equal happiness for me. So as long as I get some part of that every day, like the little, the variable swap out, but like the time allotments are there. Um, you know, so and and this year for me, I should say too, is I call it the year of the flow where I’m not planning anything, like again, like you guys are like the only thing on my week that I have to do at a certain time this week, right? Which is fine, but like that’s why I like it. Like I don’t, you know, like the the guy today at the coffee shop, right? Like I haven’t seen him in a year and then I said, hey, why don’t you come have coffee with me and we’ll talk for an hour. Like I’m just hanging out here, you know, typing. And that was nice. I wouldn’t have been able to do that before. Um, so the future is just more of this kind of stuff, but I’ll definitely be working on something for sure.
Mindy: Awesome. I love that idea. You don’t always have to be looking for the next thing to accomplish. It’s okay to to uh enjoy your life.
Guest: Yeah. I say no a lot, yeah. The whole, you know, everyone says yes too much. I will say there are days where I’m like, I need something to do and I can’t, I can’t do anything. Like there I definitely have those days and I have to force myself like to get creative. Um but for the most part, it works out.
Mindy: Well, come visit. You can clean out my house.
Guest: I love I I would probably pay to declutter someone’s house. That’s how much I enjoy it. I’m always walking around and my wife’s like, you’re looking for things to get rid of, aren’t you? And I’m like, yes I am. Cuz it’s so fun and freeing.
Scott: You can trade, you can clean out Mindy’s house and then Mindy can clean out your shopping um your grocery shopping list.
Guest: There you go.
Mindy: I can clean up your grocery shopping. Yeah, open invitation anytime, Jay. You can stay in the basement.
Guest: It’s nice. Okay. Oh, man.
Mindy: Okay, well Jay, where can people find you online?
Guest: Um, you can go I’m on Twitter at Budgets Are Sexy. Um you can go to the blog budgetsaresexy.com and then um I have like an online, I don’t know, I guess like a resume that talks about stuff I’ve worked on and that’s uh jmoney.biz. J like the letter J, money, then .biz um that gives you like a background on on my stuff.
Scott: and I believe that as of yesterday it is now called X, so no more Twitter.
Guest: There you go. Find me on X.
Mindy: Well on that thread.
Scott: Thank you so much for coming on the show Jay. It was great to connect with you and uh we hope you have a wonderful rest of your Fire week here.
Guest: Thank you. Thanks for having me guys.
Mindy: Thank you, Jay. We’ll talk to you soon. Scott, that was Jay Money and he is always so much fun to talk to. I really enjoyed our conversation with him today.
Scott: Yeah, it was great to chat with Jay. He’s a finance Rockstar, Mindy.
Minky: He is. He is a rockstar. You know I really miss Rockstar finance.
Scott: Yeah, pun intended. Jay also used to run a site called Rockstar Finance, which was great. He just would aggregate all of the best kind of blog articles or things that were happening in the personal finance and investing world and send them out a nice newsletter. So I’m not sure what happened to Rockstar Finance, but you know what a what an awesome serial entrepreneur Jay Jay Money has been.
Mindy: And sold again and yeah, I don’t know where it is now. I don’t think anybody’s publishing it anymore, which is too bad because it was a really awesome way to learn about new bloggers. Uh, do you know J.D. Roth and Jim Wang started one called Apex Money and that is also a good way to find new finance bloggers. I love when there’s new finance bloggers out there because it helps people find the voice that speaks best to them. And, you know, not everybody’s voice is going to be for everybody. And if you can find one that’s going to help you learn, that’s the best.
Scott: Yeah, I think that’s right. You know, it’s it’s it’s it’s so interesting how all these folks, you know, J Money, J.D., Jim Wang, um Steve Chu, the folks that we’ve met and known for over the years who have been big finance bloggers. Um they’re they’re brilliant, they’ve pioneered things, but like we also need some new finance bloggers coming into the the world here. That are talking about things and and talking about the current realities and struggles that folks are facing in 2023 as they’re trying to build wealth. So um shout out to everybody who’s out there who’s contemplating or thinking about or has started a uh is in progress the personal finance blog and is on the journey because you’re helping a lot of people and there’s uh a lot of there’s a new a new wave uh coming here and and um great contributions to be made from the next gen, I guess of of these bloggers.
Mindy: Yep, I love reading them. If you have a favorite new money blogger, email me Mindy@biggerpockets.com or him scott@biggerpockets.com. And as always, if you have a complaint about the show, scott@biggerpockets.com.
Scott: Mmhm.
Mindy: All right, that wraps up this episode of the BiggerPockets Money podcast. He is Scott Trench and I am Mindy Jensen. In honor of J. Money, I’m saying later skater.
Scott: If you enjoyed today’s episode, please give us a five-star review on Spotify or Apple. And if you’re looking for even more money content, feel free to visit our YouTube channel at youtube.com/biggerpocketsmoney.
Mindy: BiggerPockets Money was created by Mindy Jensen and Scott Trench, produced by Kalyn Bennett, editing by Exodus Media, copywriting by Nate Weintraub. Lastly, a big thank you to the BiggerPockets team for making this show possible.
