Host: Today we are talking to one of the most boring men in the world, Chris Russen. Chris dove for treasure with Navy SEALs in the Florida Keys. He helped discover one of the largest Torosaurus specimens ever found, searched for the ghost of Tom Petty with Carl, wrote a screenplay, just released an album and survived a deadly disease. And he’s not even 50 yet.
Hi there, I’m Mindy Jensen.
Host: And I’m Carl Jensen.
Host: And this is the Mindy and Carl on Life After FI show, where we talk about what happens after you reach financial independence.
Host: Why do we call this show Life After Fire?
Host: Because we’re talking about and talking to people who are living their best life after reaching FI. Let’s start out with the most interesting part, his FI journey. Chris, tell us when you discovered the concept of financial independence.
Guest: Yeah, first of all, thanks, uh, thanks for having me on. It’s really fun to be here. Yeah, so to answer your question, when did I first find out about FI? It was after I was already FI. Um, and so I had kind of been thinking about these concepts. I thought I had come up with something brand new, and then I started Googling around and, uh, I actually found Carl’s blog first, um, 1500 Days, and then I found out, hey, he lives no more than, you know, less than 100 miles from my house. And so does this guy, Mr. Money Mustache. And and from there, uh, Carl and I ended up, I reached out, I emailed, and amazingly, he responded, and we met up for a a beer at a brewery. Um, yeah, and the rest is history. And so I didn’t, I didn’t find out about FI until I had already thought I invented it, and then realized, no, I hadn’t, but that’s great because there’s a bunch of other people I could hang out with.
Host: If you were already financially independent, what were you looking for that caused you to discover Carl’s blog?
Guest: At the time I was working at a startup, and we were trying to close a round of funding. In came a really wealthy potential investor, and he he’s worth about a half a billion dollars with a B. He kind of threw his keys on the table and they had like a Ferrari and a Porsche keychain, you know, he made a big show out of it. And then we were kind of telling him about our company, but he started talking about money.
And, um, you know, he was saying, um, you know, when you have more money, people want something from you, and some people feel like you give them too much money and others not enough. And then he just like looked around our crappy office and he said, remember this time, this is the happiest you’ll ever be. And, uh, you know, working at a startup is is rough. And so I was thinking, this guy doesn’t seem very happy, and if I’m going to try to grow into that over time, that’s not the kind of life I want. And so I started kind of thinking about, how much money do you need to never have to work again? You know, what if I started, what if I stopped working for other people for money, and started working for myself for happiness? And that was kind of the crux of the, uh, you know, the, uh, discovery process. And that’s when I started Googling around. I don’t even remember what that first search was, but it was probably something like that, like, what do you do when you don’t need to work anymore? Or how much do I need to not have to work? Yeah.
Host: So, Chris, I would like to talk a little bit more about how you got to this position of financial independence. What was your, you said you were a tech worker, uh, what was your job and what was your like savings rate? Did you track any of that?
Guest: We were wanting to get ahead and kind of didn’t have money coming out of college. Um, you know, we were down to the point where we couldn’t pay rent. And so my drive was to alleviate that. I started work as a mechanical engineer, and I wanted to get ahead, you know? And so what I would do is I would push for raises. Like, what can I do to get the next run? What can I do to get to get a 20% raise by the end of this year? And when you pose that question to a boss, no one wants to tell you that’s not possible because then you’re not motivated. You don’t feel a path to success. And so they give you a path to success. And that path is often really aggressive.
I would pursue that every raise, every review, you know, and so over the first eight years of working, I think I averaged around 20% uh, raises every year, which when that compounds up, really increases your earnings. At the same time, my, uh, wife was working. We were saving over 50% of what we brought in, and so we were living off a little less than one salary and saving the entire other one. You know, because of that experience, because we didn’t want to find ourselves out of work and unable to get a job again. Yeah. So that was our early process.
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Host: Welcome back to the show. We haven’t really talked about any of the amazing accomplishments you’ve had yet, but let’s start about, let’s talk about surviving a deadly disease.
Guest: Yeah, so, uh, I just last week, actually, had my, or was it, yeah, just last week, had my three year, uh, post, uh, chemo follow up, and I am still cancer free. But that’s what I…
Host: Yay! Hooray! Carl, say yay!
Host: Yay.
Host: That was the worst yay ever. I will be very excited for you.
Guest: I know you’re excited on the inside, Carl.
Host: I’m very, I’m deeply happy for Chris. Uh, yes, for for many reasons. Uh, good job, Chris.
Guest: So yeah, to talk about that a little bit, um, I had been doing a number of the adventures that you alluded to in that super kind intro. And then was at a spot where my my wife had continued to work for reasons outside of money. You know, she liked her job. There was a lot of exciting things going on and what she was working on and wanted to keep going, but she was starting to talk to me and saying, “Hey, I think I’m at a point where I’m ready to leave traditional work.” And so I was all excited about how that would change things and and the things we could do together. Um, and then, uh, just before Christmas, um, I guess a little over three years ago now, I, uh, I found out I had metastatic testicular cancer that had kind of spread into my abdomen. And, um, in those early stages, you don’t really have odds yet because they don’t know what they’re dealing with. And that was a pretty uh scary time. Um, then I eventually had to go through, you know, surgery and chemo, and those odds shifted over time and and turned in my favor. Um, yeah, and and now I here I am three years cancer free. That experience was certainly educational and also a big kick to the face right in the time where I was excited for the, you know, the greatest time in our lives.
Host: How long did it take to, from diagnosis to that first doctor’s appointment where they said you don’t have cancer anymore?
Guest: They don’t really say you don’t have cancer. And there’s a, there’s an important thing there and I think there’s a lesson here, so I guess I’ll go down that path is I’ll answer your question and that is, I got the diagnosis. I was in for surgery within the week because with Christmas coming up and COVID challenges, you know, they needed to staff this hospital and get that thing out as quick as they could. And so I was in for surgery quick. I then started chemo, I think in, it was in January, and then by, you know, it was a little over three months later when all my cycles of treatment were done. It was a very fast but extremely aggressive treatment. I mean, aggressive to the point of I don’t remember several weeks of it. It’s an it’s a blackout and an entire, I was in a funk. Um and then, um, you know, after you’re done, they scan and find nothing in your blood work, and then you start your clock. And so from there, I am three years past that point. Um, the reason I said they don’t really say you’re cancer free is because you’ve, I kept asking that, like, when do I know I’m out of the woods? you know, like, is, do we know if the cancer is still there? Do we, do we know if it’s gone yet? And the care staff always kept focusing on, you know, enjoy the amount of health you’ve got now. Do the things you want to do. Focus on today. Focus on health, because and and over time I kind of shifted my thinking, um, to the way they talked about it, which is, you never know you’re safe. You know? And so here I am now three years. At one point, it was two years. At one point, it was a week. Um, and you just got to make the decision to say I’m healthy, to say I’m going to go, I’m going to make plans, you know, long-term plans. I’m going to do the things, because if I don’t, it’s like I’m paying interest on a debt I might not owe, you know?
Host: So I think there’s a super important lesson in your story, Chris, because whenever financial independence comes up in the media, it’s all these wonderful things that you could do with it. Uh, people living in camper vans that are 20 years old that make all this money or whatever, have this beautiful life living in foreign countries, do these wonderful things. But, um, at the core, the most important thing is for stuff like this, when you got this diagnosis, you you were already financially independent. So if the worst case scenario, you would have passed, at least you would have done that knowing that your family was taken care of, correct?
Guest: Yeah, and that’s a it’s a great point, you know. Um, we do talk about all the, or it’s the great things that people do, those huge adventures get a lot of press. Um, but yeah, knowing knowing that if a scan came up and insurance denied it, I could still pay that scan and I would not be in financial distress. That was a huge comfort with FI. Knowing that if treatment went sideways and, you know, I wasn’t around, that my wife and kids would be taken care of. Huge, um, a huge amount of relief. And really, in addition to that, you know, I did do a lot of adventures, like you alluded to, prior to this this, uh, diagnosis. Um, but the subtlety of having the time and space to just relax and do some of the things and not have regret is really valuable. More valuable than, you know, a five-star fancy dinner or a flight to Fiji, it’s more the subtleties. It’s more the the way I felt going into it. Um, so I think a lot of, you know, the flashy stuff is the sugar that helps the medicine go down. I’m going to drive the a Lamborghini. I’m gonna, you know, stay in the penthouse suite or something, but when you actually get there, those things don’t do much for you, and it’s some of this other stuff I was talking about that that’s a big strength of it for me at least.
Host: One thought I’ve had, I’m so thankful for FI because, um, and back up a second, you just reminded me of this thought I had maybe a year or two ago, if I did die or knew I was going to die, I would I wouldn’t be happy about it if I knew I was going to die soon. But, um, like the super honest truth is, I would be happy with the way I lived. I don’t think I’d have any regrets. Uh, I don’t think we held back. We’ve had great adventures. We’ve done the most with what we could and it sounds like you could probably say the same thing, Chris, is that, is that true?
Guest: I think for the most part, um, yeah, there was, there were a lot of, a lot of things I did, um, you know, prior to the diagnosis that were great, you know, that were things I always wanted to do since I was a kid. Um, but I didn’t do it all. Um, you know, there’s, there’s other things, so there’s a project I’m working on now, um, that is probably more important than any of that. But I never did it. You know, I never did it until after, after cancer. And there are reasons for that that have nothing to do with, you know, money.
Host: I guess I just gave myself a lead in, didn’t I? Is it the music?
Guest: Music. It’s a music project. And music has always been a big part of my life. It’s always been something I turned to when I when I had trouble talking about it, I could write about it and play songs about it. Um, but I didn’t, I guess I took it for granted, you know, my ability to sing and write and play. And then going through chemo, um, I had to take some pretty aggressive bleomycin treatments that kind of wreck your lungs temporarily, and I lost my ability to sing. And I remember in that time, just kicking myself. Why didn’t I, why didn’t I, you know, I I’d been working on a set of songs for years, but oh, that one harmony part wasn’t quite quite right, or this this piece still needs work. Um, I think the reason I didn’t do it was was less about money or time, bandwidth, and and more about just like identity, you know, about it’s nice to have the comfort of potential rather than the terror of having to deliver on that potential. Um, but going through that process, you know, when I was lying in that bed, I said, if if I get better, if I get through this, I’m gonna get my voice back and I’m gonna do that album. I’m going to face this. And so that’s been my life for the last several months and it’s it’s something I’m I’m really into right now.
Host: Wow. So do you think you, it sounds like this album has been a lifelong thing, but maybe all this other stuff was a kick in the butt to do it. I I liked what you said, the comfort of the potential of doing it, so that allows you to sit on there and contemplate the whole thing without doing much of anything versus actually putting the boots on the ground and and doing it. How did you, uh, how did you finally get off your butt and do this?
Guest: Yeah, so, I mean, the the threat of, the threat of not being able to sing again and the threat of, you know, not making it through the chemo was enough to shake me to the core and say, “You’re doing this.” You know? And and so coming out of that, when I got, I started to get health back, it took a, it took a quite a while to get the voice back. Um, and I I knew I was doing it. You know, I I had made a promise to myself while going through that treatment. And so then it was just a matter of uh, of putting in the work, uh, which was, like anything, a lot more than I envisioned. I tried to find a producer who was really good and I convinced him to do it. You know, it really is, you’ve got a great, a great way to enlist help when you tell people your cancer story, I found. You get a lot of sympathy. Um, hopefully there’s talent there too. Um, but yeah, he agreed to do the project, but he was booked out eight months. So I had to then wait another eight months. I had to find a singing partner to do all the harmonies, and then round up musicians, and then go through the uh, personal self doubt of I’m horrible and this music is no good one day. And then the next day I’m a rock star and I am the most amazing musician that’s ever lived. Um, and so there’s all of that. Um, a lot of self discovery and a lot of, uh, a lot of fun and challenge at the same time.
Host: What genre is your music?
Guest: So this project is folk-americana. Um, I think of bands like The Civil Wars or Watchhouse. Um, it’s kind of, kind of folky, indie, folk, singer songwriter type stuff.
Host: We have to take one final ad break, but we’ll be back with more after this.
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Host: Thanks for sticking with us. What is the name of the album and where can people find it?
Guest: Thanks Carl. I am, I’ve just started releasing music in in March. The first single came out. So it’s Chris Russen, C. H. R. I. S. last name R. U. S. I. N. and I am everywhere on all the streamers. Um, first song, “Leave It In the Snow,” came out in March. Second one’s going to come out on the 18th of April, called “Cinders,” and I’m releasing music every month of 2025, which is super fun for me and also another giant learning experience on how to how to do that.
Host: Awesome. What is next for you? You’ve done all these crazy things, uh had a possible near death experience, created an album, um, what, do you have anything on the horizon or you just gonna…
Host: The book! Carl, the book!
Guest: Oh, the book yes! The book that Mindy is co-writing with me. I’m just kidding. Early in my life and career, I think a big thing that helped me get to FI was I started my career in the giant tech downturn of the early 2000s, you know, when like, I came to Denver and 13,000 tech workers had been laid off and I was trying to get a job with no experience. And I felt very, I felt like I didn’t have any security. And so, kind of like for me, that drive, always trying to get ahead and do the next thing was healthy and it helped me get to FI. But now, fast forward, different stage in life, and we talked about this earlier in the talk, things that served you well then, might not still serve you, is, you know, I’ve done a lot and I think I’m at the point where I don’t think of checklists or like, got to do the next big thing. It’s more about what is what is fulfilling, what is exciting me, what is allowing me to do, you know, build relationships in my life and connection. Um, and so there’s no real like checklist or next thing. It’s more like an evolving sort of what is, what is healthy right now? What feels good for the next six months? And so yeah, for me, it’s this music thing. That’s gonna, that’s going to be a big effort for at least the next six months. Um, and then beyond that, hey, I’ll be happy to still have health and time. I mean, maybe that’s the cancer perspective, right? And then and see what comes.
Host: Chris, this has been a lot of fun, but you have been mentioning all this music and I want to hear some. Can you play something for us, please?
Guest: Sure. Yeah, this will be a fun experiment to see how it comes through, uh, over the over the speakers here on the podcast. Let me grab a guitar.
Host: And now for the world premiere of Chris’s music.
Guest: I think what I’m going to play for you is, you know, we’ve talked a lot about the journey, uh, FI and then cancer and lessons and, so I’ll play one that kind of, uh Carl, you asked if I wrote any about that process, here’s one about that.
And I lay awake when I was little
There at the lake out in the middle
The moonlight streaming ‘cross the water line
I’d hear the whistle from the train tracks go everywhere I’ve never been
Wailing out my heart for the girl I’d find in time
I’m a plane and I’m back home
But the lake is frozen up
She’s right here
But I’m alone
And there’s a train out there that just keeps rolling
And there’s a plane in here that’s not enough
I used to dream
Of love I’d find in time
Now I dream
of finding time for love
Host: Wow, that was really good. Chris, I didn’t know you had such a good voice.
Guest: Oh, thank you.
Host: And you’re a good guitarist too. Wow, I have no musical talent whatsoever. I can’t sing, I can’t play any instruments. Um, I only sing in the car when it’s by myself.
Guest: I hope it came through over the podcast. I don’t know if you could hear it.
Host: Yeah, it came through great. I really appreciate you playing for us. That was such a good song. Thank you. And world debut! So…
Guest: World premiere, right here.
Host: Yes, world premiere. So the next time you have a world premiere album, we’ll bring you back.
Guest: Thanks so much.
Host: Chris, this was so much fun. Is there any place people can find you online? I mean, there should be because you just released an album, so people need to go and download that, but where, where can people find you online?
Guest: For all things music, uh, ChrisRussen.com is my homepage, and you can find me anywhere you stream your music by just searching Chris, last name R. U. S. I. N. For anything FI, you know, I I do blog, I I don’t blog as much as I used to, but I’ve got a a blog um, lifeoutsidethemaze.com. And you can contact me through that if you if you have uh questions or follow ups on anything FI related. Um, and yeah, it’s been, been a blast talking with you both.
Host: Thank you so much.
Host: Thank you, Chris, and we will talk to you soon. That wraps up this episode of the Life After FIRE show with Carl Jensen. I am Mindy Jensen saying, see you ’round, Inspector Pig.
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